Cozumel Incident 9/4/11

[WSOPFAN]

Yes, because some people actually respect others' privacy. I don't know about you, but I've done things I wouldn't want the whole world to know, and I would expect my friends to keep quiet about it.

Just curious would that loyalty extend to beyond the incident? Like I said before what if someone is seriously injured trying to rescue you or there is an accident during transportation of you after an incident would you still expect your friends to honor your so called privacy?

 

[deborahdelamar]

I'm going out on a limb here by looking at the dive table. Specifically, the June, 2009, NAVSEA "Schedules in the Integrated Air Decompression Table of U.S. Navy Diving Manual, Revision 6: Computation and Estimated Risks of Decompression Sickness". These tables are 10 years newer and more conservative than the '99 USN Tables that many divers still use.

According to this document, a 5-minute dive to bottom depth 250fsw on air alone, requires a 3-minute stop at 20fsw. Ascent time to that stop is 7 min. 40 sec., with a total ascent time 11 min., 20 sec. The deco stop is reduced by 1 minute at the same depth if the diver uses O2 for deco. The ending PG is Z+++ and a short chamber ride (or long in-water recompression with full face mask) with O2 is required.

So the planned dive -- and we really don't know the planned depth, do we? -- would have been doable had the participants followed accepted guidelines for that dive. Unfortunately, any plan -- whether it conformed to the table or not -- was blown due to the continued descent of one of the divers, subsequent rescue by teammate, OOA with buddy breathing, and rapid ascent.

That can only be categorized as an accident.

 

[WSOPFAN]

I'm going out on a limb here by looking at the dive table. Specifically, the June, 2009, NAVSEA "Schedules in the Integrated Air Decompression Table of U.S. Navy Diving Manual, Revision 6: Computation and Estimated Risks of Decompression Sickness". These tables are 10 years newer and more conservative than the '99 USN Tables that many divers still use.

According to this document, a 5-minute dive to bottom depth 250fsw on air alone, requires a 3-minute stop at 20fsw. Ascent time to that stop is 7 min. 40 sec., with a total ascent time 11 min., 20 sec. The deco stop is reduced by 1 minute at the same depth if the diver uses O2 for deco. The ending PG is Z+ and, if the dive is air only, a short chamber ride (or long in-water recompression) with O2 is required.

So the planned dive would have been doable had the participants followed accepted guidelines for that dive. Unfortunately, any plan -- whether it conformed to the table or not -- was blown due to the continued descent of one of the divers, subsequent rescue by teammate, OOA with buddy breathing, and rapid ascent.

That can only be categorized as an accident.

So because a dive table says you can survive a dive like that whatever happened on that dive is an accident? Interesting way of looking at it however other opinions posted here including mine don't look at it that way.

 

[Texas Torpedo]

Can you even get a trimix fill on the island?

Yes, you can, but they aren't cheap. If anyone doesn't like the price of He in the states, they only need to go to Coz to feel better about it.
I brought my double 85's down there with this in mind but decided quickly there wasn't much below 200 I really cared that much to see. My AL40's did see a fair amount of action though since 02 isn't that extreme.

I should also point out that there a number of excellent tech instructors on the Island should anyone there want to get trained for this type of diving. Rumor has it at least one of them gives locals nice discounts.

 

[cenotist]

As far as I understand, Accidents and Incidents forum is for analysing accidents and drawing conclusions, so that we can learn from them. The gray matter in our heads should tell us:

1. Recreational limits are for safe diving (if you do not have health problems)
2. You can exceed these limits and you are not going to die instantly
3. If you exceed these limits considerably, you WILL have problems. The gravity of problems will depend upon your age, physical fitness, level of alcohol, mercy of God, …

About this case on our hands:
1. The limits were pushed
2. Problems occurred
3. They were able to come out

They made a mistake to plan this dive in a first place, but the biggest mistake was to go back into the water, not straight into the chamber. Was the reason for that act their reputation or financial, they know better. We all can see, what came out of this.

Many rec ow divers read this and what is our message to them? Push limits, make deep air dives, go back for recompression (even if chamber is 10 minutes away)??? I can read, that diving is risky sports. It IS risky when you MAKE it risky.

As Bill Bogue said: “Basically I believe that since turn of the century (1900) the population has selectively bred out the “explorer gene” and replaced it with the “adventure gene”. The explorer is a person that has a goal and reads voraciously all the available information concerning the propodsed activity, practices any skills required, understands that there are risks, evaluates these risks and takes the necessary steps to minimise risk.”

I am not sure, that in this case it was exploration dive. Seems more like adventure with devastating results. Do NOT come to tell in this forum about any records, if you do not have ANY idea, how they are made. Just a hint – lots of training, health check, check dives, safety divers, safety crew, medical personnel, chambers ready and waiting, …

STOP this nonsense discussion about navy tables. They are young, trained men. When did you have your last gym day or cardio training?!

If you want to go deep, go and educate yourself. BTW – there is nothing impressive after 300ft down there in Cozumel. Just gray and cold. So, not worth of trouble.

 

[CozumelAntonio]

....but the biggest mistake was to go back into the water, not straight into the chamber...

Bingo.

 

[deborahdelamar]

So because a dive table says you can survive a dive like that whatever happened on that dive is an accident? Interesting way of looking at it however other opinions posted here including mine don't look at it that way.

From the first day that we all began our OW classes, our instructors told us never to exceed our training -- or they darn well should have! Knowledge is powerful. I believe that is one of the purposes of this forum. And, for deco diving, the generally-accepted standard for experience and knowledge-sharing is the US Navy and its dive tables. That's why I referenced them and feel that anyone who wants to do a deep bounce dive have a look at the info contained there before getting wet.

Though I don't know the specific plan for this dive nor do I know what knowledge, training and experience those divers had going into it, there is much support for the factoid that something went very wrong during the plan's execution. Call it what you will.

There is also circumstantial evidence to support errors made after the dive -- which concern me a great deal and should be emphasized here. Starting out, they seemed to have been unprepared for their recompression. After surfacing -- which I feel is a miracle in & of itself -- they didn't follow SOP to get into recovery position, take O2 immediately, and go to a chamber. How much, if anything, this contributed to their current conditions is unknown. But surely, they blew their chances for treatment of symptoms near time of onset.

But humans are just that -- and we do stupid things all the time and always will. It's a shame that this tragedy happened and I personally feel that there are lessons to be learned here and we should discuss those.

 

[scubafanatic]

So what you have gleaned from this incident, cause it was no accident that's for sure, is that some in the diving community are loyal to the point of covering up behavior like this and that is a good thing?

the coverup is totally predictable.....I took a TON of flack for reporting the INCREDIBLE level of devastation the reefs of Coz suffered from Hurricane Wilma in 2005 ( I was there 02/06) ......and the business powers that be didn't really appreciate my dismal report back then either !

 

[WSOPFAN]

From the first day that we all began our OW classes, our instructors told us never to exceed our training -- or they darn well should have! Knowledge is powerful. I believe that is one of the purposes of this forum. And, for deco diving, the generally-accepted standard for experience and knowledge-sharing is the US Navy and its dive tables. That's why I referenced them and feel that anyone who wants to do a deep bounce dive have a look at the info contained there before getting wet.

Though I don't know the specific plan for this dive nor do I know what knowledge, training and experience those divers had going into it, there is much support for the factoid that something went very wrong during the plan's execution. Call it what you will.

There is also circumstantial evidence to support errors made after the dive -- which concern me a great deal and should be emphasized here. Starting out, they seemed to have been unprepared for their recompression. After surfacing -- which I feel is a miracle in & of itself -- they didn't follow SOP to get into recovery position, take O2 immediately, and go to a chamber. How much, if anything, this contributed to their current conditions is unknown. But surely, they blew their chances for treatment of symptoms near time of onset.

But humans are just that -- and we do stupid things all the time and always will. It's a shame that this tragedy happened and I personally feel that there are lessons to be learned here and we should discuss those.

I may not express my opinions in a fashion similar to that of yours or Cenotist, I may come off somewhat harsh or critical of the incident but I agree there are numerous lessons to be learned. To say that this was a planned dive in the same paragraph that you use a professional dive tables is a bit confusing. IMO you are saying it was ok for them to partially plan a dive.........others here have said there is no way that qualifies anywhere near a safely and properly planned dive. It was not properly planned period so to even suggest that it was planned at all is wrong but that is just my opinion. For me or others here to actually say what this incident was would most certainly get us instantly banned however we can move beyond that and discuss things to be learned and that list just from this 1 incident will be very long.

 

[Teamcasa]

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