Cozumel Incident 9/4/11

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IF this was a dive where they planned to go to 150-160, whatever, and got a current, then the lesson is to have more air then you think you might need so you can deal with emergencies if they happen, and don't dive beyond your training.

If it was a dive to go anywhere past 100, they were inadequately equipped, and therefore the dive was inadequately planned and inadequately prepared.

While I am not an experienced Coz diver, that a down-current could take one from 100' to 300' just doesn't seem possible.

I submit this goes beyond the "don't be stupid", but into "bravado kills".
 
I've caught at least many of the hints and subtle pushes but still can't consider it fact because it is not. If asked, I believe that is what happened though.


It's a very fair question. If you know me, you know I am naturally a skeptic, but I fully believe it. I won't go into all the reasons I believe it, but I will point out something about those crickets you have been listening to.

Before that, it was noted that a number of Cozumel-based professionals who were in a position to know the truth were giving very strong hints about things. We learned that some dive professionals (hint, hint) do dives they would not take tourists on when they are off the books. We learned that downwellings such as were described do not exist. As was said earlier, all the hints pointed to a dive plan of this sort and really to no other possible conclusion.

And then this dive plan was posted by someone who in an earlier post on the other thread demonstrated inside knowledge.

Since then all the hints have stopped and we have heard nothing but crickets. Notice that not a single person with inside knowledge--and there are many such people--contradicted it in any way.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Sorry for the delay. I'm traveling on the road and the last place I stopped I couldn't get data access.

Here is what I know of the situation. You can take it however you want. I am not going to cite direct sources, (there are multiple sources corroborating the same information) so if that causes you to dismiss what I am sharing, so be it. Suffice it to say; what Kevin shared early on is mostly correct. Additionally, one of the divers involved has shared with several people about what took place. It is my understanding that his story of the events has not changed, nor has he been withholding details to save face.

At this point, the chance of getting a first hand / legitimate buddy account regarding this dive is slim considering the shop owner is in no position to, nor will she be any time soon. The diver involved who showed up here and posted the reason this took place was simply due to a extreme down current, is false, and what he may say lacks credibility now IMO. The DM who is also hospitalized and still battling paralysis is not a visitor of internet forums and is unlikely to have someone help him give a detailed first had account at least until his treatments are resolved.

As I have previously mentioned, I am not posting any of this to embarrass or hurt anyone. I’m releasing the information that I know relating to this to:
a) Defend Cozumel as a safe place to dive; and
b) Hopefully reach other divers who might have wild ideas about pushing way past the established limits without the proper training, equipment and planning And show them what can happen if they do.

Some of you have expressed concern and consternation about why some Dive Ops apparently in the know have not been forthcoming with all that they may know. IMO there are probably a number of reasons for this. Firstly, I’d say it is not their responsibility to disclose this information, and generally there may be legal privacy concerns as well. I’m not sure if this applies to non-customer divers but as a business owner myself, I rarely discuss business related matters with those who don’t need to know.
Secondly, there are those online that would most certainly see this release of information by a competing operator as an underhanded jab at another business, essentially throwing them under the bus, which couldn’t be further from the truth. Most of the dive ops on the Island are friendly with each other, and often work together.

I’ve talked to several friends in the industry back in Cozumel and they are all shocked, saddened and upset about what has happened. People do get bent occasionally diving in Cozumel, just like anyplace else on earth, however rarely like this. No matter the circumstances or who it is it hits home for those who live on the Island far greater than those who do not, with the exception of friends and family.
What else? How about if they get any of the information incorrect? They’d be taken to task for it, just as I am sure I will be should anything I am posting turn out to be inaccurate. I also know there has been a concern that disclosure of this information may affect those who may donate to their medical bills. This has given me pause with regard to responding as I am now. I sincerely hope that is not the case. These are good people who simply made some poor decisions. I’m absolutely sure none of them expected this outcome. They most definitely deserve our support.

Back to what everyone really is interested in...

This dive took place on Villa Blanca Wall.

As I previously posted, it is my understanding that this dive’s goal was a deep bounce dive. The planned depth for the three injured divers was 250 - 300 fsw. I cannot confirm the maximum depth reached, however the plan was exceeded substantially. I’ve heard in excess of 400 fsw by multiple people as a max depth but this hasn’t been confirmed by anyone that I know via a dive computer. I believe there is also someone looking into what the max attainable depth is where they were diving, and if it was even possible to reach 400+ in that area. In the end, it really doesn’t matter.. 250-400.. Single tanks, etc.. Bad bad idea.. Is it possible? Sure.. But, it leaves almost no room for error.

In route to their goals, two of the divers leveled off, while the one that is in the most critical condition continued down. When the dive master tried to get her attention, she continued on. The DM then made the decision to go after her while the other diver remained around his planned depth. Upon the return of the two that exceeded the plan, there was a serious enough issue with remaining gas that they decided their only recourse was to make a direct ascent to the surface without making any stops, while sharing air between the three of them.

Once back on the surface they made the decision to switch out their tanks with a second set and try to complete some deco, or what has been calling in-water re-compression. I’ve been told these tanks were filled with air (Not that I believe that Nitrox would have helped all that much at this point) and the depth they returned to was in the 60-70' range. Most likely well above their first stop level depending on how long they were down.

I have also now been told that both of the local divers were using 80's, while the diver who was hurt the least was using an AL100, for those who were asking.

That is pretty much the summary of what I know..

I’m sure everyone is going to have an opinion on this incident and what the trigger factors were… Like most dive accidents, it’s usually not just one thing… Without a doubt I feel narcosis was key factor in what took place. If anyone has experienced narcosis at 100-150, you can go ahead and amplify that significantly in the 200-300’ range on air.. You can be an excellent diver and have bounced down to 200’, 225’ or 250’ previously on air just fine, but you don’t know what your body is going to do when you take it just a little further. In her case she simply kept going…

It really sucks¦ It’s tragic.. It hurts.. And it should!

This should be a warning to anyone who wants to beat their chest and talk about just how deep they have been. (If bragging means that much to anyone, GET TRAINED and equipped for it. I don’t give a flip if you are some gung-ho dive master or instructor with 1000’s of dives... You are just as bad (if not worse) as a non-certified / trained person donning SCUBA gear and jumping in. Ignorance is bliss until it kills or cripples you and breaks your family & friend’s hearts.

David
 
Alleged revelation- not from any of the 3 injured divers. Chosing who to believe here in this forum is an individual decision.

Some people are more known quantities than others... Not trying to be insulting but if you were to have posted details about what was taking place in Cozumel or Bora Bora for that matter, why would anyone believe you with your 11 posts (currently) and living in Florida? Whereas many people who are discussing this (mostly behind the scenes in Private Messages and outside of SB) are key players in the Cozumel dive industry and have direct communications with people right in the middle of this.. They are not armchair quarterbacking.. But, everyone can deduce what they like..

You can almost be certain in most dive incidents / accidents there are people out there that know much more than the rest of the people in these forums. Generally speaking, their priority is not sharing information with you.. Be happy when it does happen and try to learn from it no matter if you believe all of what is disclosed or not..
 
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I used to think that deep bounce dive = brave.

With further training it now seems to me that deep bounce dive = amateur.
 
<<Disclaimer: what follows is entirely supposition on my own accord. I am posting it in the hope that someone will see this, and sit down with a thump, and seek out a good class in Rock Bottom. I have not recieved any of the magic PM's, or had any inside information, and I extrapolated this from what's been posted (and my first-hand observations of divers under duress).>>

Dive starts. Three divers with full Aluminum 80's of air.
0 cf used
78 cf remain



Divers are very experienced, and quickly descend to 300' at a fast rate of 100 fpm.
3 minutes dive time
15 cf used
63 cf remain



Since the divers are wearing 3 mil suits, the have to add air to their BC's to get neutral.
1 cf used
62 cf remain



An emergency occours that places one diver at 350'. A second diver gives chase. This leads to an elevated RMV - say, 1 cfm, being generous - and it takes 1 minute to chase, 1 minute to resolve the emergency, and both divers (breathing their own backgas) begin swimming up the emergency to a depth of 270'.
7 minutes dive time
44 cf used
18 cf remain
...This is 700 psi at 270 feet...


The pair meets diver #3. Because they are well-trained in decompression, they remember that in their original plan they must get above 113' quickly. With the "OMG" moments behind them, their RMV decreases a bit to 0.75 cfm, and they swim up to 130' at 50 fpm.
10 minutes dive time
15 cf used
3 cf remain



The pair exhausts their gas, and begin breathing from diver #3, who avoided getting wrapped up in the emergency, and thus fortunately has 26 cf remaining for the team.


The pair has 29 minutes deco obligation at this point; diver #3 has only 23 minutes obligation. With only 8.5 cf per person, and struggling to buddy breath while ascending, the best the trio can do is slow their ascent to 30 fpm.
14 minutes dive time
25.5 cf used
0 cf remain




...Of course, this is the best case scenario, where the pair exhausts their gas during the ascent. The worst case involves the pair sharing air at 350'.


This is all a work of fiction, but I hope someone learns from it.


All the best, James
 
There was someone that posted a comment about some of our previous posts that were supposedly mysteriously deleted stating that maybe it was somehow an attempt to cover up what happened. I have since found those posts kind of on accident when I went looking for a post I did about world record dives on air. They were not deleted but actually moved to the whine and cheese forum.......not just mine but all the posts the mods cleared out with the first sweep when some were complaining and didn't want those type of posts there. Anywhere they are here:

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/whine-cheeze/395611-wsopfans-rant.html
 
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As I previously posted, it is my understanding that this dive&#8217;s goal was a deep bounce dive. The planned depth for the three injured divers was 250 - 300 fsw. I cannot confirm the maximum depth reached, however the plan was exceeded substantially. I&#8217;ve heard in excess of 400 fsw by multiple people as a max depth but this hasn&#8217;t been confirmed by anyone that I know via a dive computer. I believe there is also someone looking into what the max attainable depth is where they were diving, and if it was even possible to reach 400+ in that area. In the end, it really doesn&#8217;t matter.. 250-400.. Single tanks, etc.. Bad bad idea.. Is it possible? Sure.. But, it leaves almost no room for error.

It is utterly amazing that they not only survived but they all made it back to the surface. You would think that if divers are foolish enough to even attempt something like this the very first hard and fast rule would be.......if TSHTF leave me and save yourself......
 
And Usain Bolt runs 100m 9,58. How about you?
 
Gas usage depends a lot upon your anticipated RMV rate. I suppose that highly experienced Cozumel dive guides counted on RMVs far better than ours.

You're still right, though.

So John back to our original discussion from the other day about those world records I posted ....do you know if those were done on a single tank? Also let's say forget all the official calculations for a minute.......isn't it reasonable to conceive that maybe some people who have done these types of dives have actually NOT done all the so called proper safety stops but yet still seem to make it out of the water just fine? Thanks.
 
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