Cozumel Airport Security WARNING

[azscubadude]

So, what, other than raising a stink on an internet forum, are you going to do about it?

I think it is a very good start. After all, this is a very large and well viewed forum and we are the ones that are doing the traveling and taking the abuse from the groping, theft, hassles, delays, small seats, abysmal service and expensive costs.

It goes back to the person that started this thread. There is absolutely no reason for a security officer to be allowed to steal over $100.00 in batteries from someone for absolutely no reason other than.. he can !! It's ludicrous. I'll bet you that I can pack my bags with loose and/or stored batteries, go to the airport, get on a plane to Cozumel and return without the same thing happening to me, I've done it many times (the last trip being the end of March this year). Why was this person singled out without explanation or a chance to pack the batteries in a way that would work so he didn't loose his personal property. For a peon security officer to be able to steal your property for no reason while the next person walks right through is a crime. What else would you call it.

How about tomorrow they take your computer, your camera or your watch (most have a battery) or your diamond ring. What if that same officer opened up your wallet and took your cash and threw it in the trash can. What is the difference.

When was the last time you heard of a plane going down because someone left a battery in their bags (checked or carry on). I do it every trip and tens of thousands of other people do it as well on a daily basis. Do you think there is a terrorist hiding in the baggage hold just waiting for your batteries so he can complete his bomb.

Try something for me. Take ALL your batteries, put them in a bag (loose or stored) and try to make them catch fire or blow up. Take all the time you need to do it. Set them outside in the sun. Put them anywhere you want, do anything you want to try to get them to do the things that supposedly caused the confiscation. I'll make you a wager you will never get it to happen.

Try raising a stink at the airport to the Airlines or TSA just once. You will be yanked into the back room, maybe arrested and probably put on one of their black lists. Since the airlines have found out they can hide behind the TSA you can say nothing to them either or they call the TSA to their rescue. Now their service and customer service is virtually non existent.

Take a few minutes to watch these, especially the first one..

Watch this.. The TSA is out of control

or both sides..
The Groping Arm Of The Government

or this one.. Miss USA molested

Go to YouTube and search TSA yourself. These aren't exaggerated statements, they are videos and accounts of actual instances taking place before your eyes and there are hundreds of them. Most people don't care until it happens to them, then they sing a very different tune.

I hope none of this does ever happens to you but if it does please please try to demand your rights and that something be done about your stolen goods or molested wife or children. What if you are traveling and one of the security guards grabs your wifes or daughters breast or other places they shouldn't go and she complains to you that they went to far. What will you do about it, will you defend her. Would you defend her to the TSA the same way if someone did the same thing to her at Sears or the local Pub. Just try it once with the TSA, I dare you. I think you will change your tune in a heartbeat.

If the TSA hires known criminals and thieves that steal your expensive equipment from your bags (watch the videos) how do you know they aren't hiring perverts and molesters too ? Would you do that job. Would you enjoy feeling up a mans junk or putting your hand in his butt crack all day long.. or as a woman feeling up a woman's private parts. In years past you would only find these people working in some very strange and bad places.

I am not a banner carrier or an activist. I have not had any problems with the TSA. But that doesn't mean I can't see a total abuse of power by a government agency that is out of control.

 

[ggunn]

I think it is a very good start. After all, this is a very large and well viewed forum and we are the ones that are doing the traveling and taking the abuse from the groping, theft, hassles, delays, small seats, abysmal service and expensive costs.

I'm sorry, but I disagree. Raising a stink on an internet forum may make the poster feel better about his/her frustrations for having had the opportunity to vent, but does little else, IMO. It's a little like feeding lionfish to groupers. ;^)

Part of the problem is that of politics and our litigious society. The Powers That Be are far more afraid of being blamed for lax security if/when something that might in retrospect be seen as preventable happens than they are of the ire of the flying public over the intrusiveness of security measures. In its most recent session, the Texas legislature debated a bill that would have made the "feel up" security checks illegal in Texas. The FAA responded with thinly veiled threats of blocking flights from Texas airports. The bill did not pass.

 

[azscubadude]

I'm sorry, but I disagree. Raising a stink on an internet forum may make the poster feel better about his/her frustrations for having had the opportunity to vent, but does little else, IMO. It's a little like feeding lionfish to groupers. ;^)

Part of the problem is that of politics and our litigious society. The Powers That Be are far more afraid of being blamed for lax security if/when something that might in retrospect be seen as preventable happens than they are of the ire of the flying public over the intrusiveness of security measures. In its most recent session, the Texas legislature debated a bill that would have made the "feel up" security checks illegal in Texas. The FAA responded with thinly veiled threats of blocking flights from Texas airports. The bill did not pass.

As much as I would hope things will change, I can't honestly disagree. There is also a federal law that allows airports to opt out of using the TSA and hire their own security but that will never happen either.

Oh well, enough of beating a dead horse.. Time to move on and start planning my next dive trip..

I've been looking at Grand Cayman this time since Continental is canceling all their weekday flights to Cozumel as of Aug. 15th but keeping their daily flights to Grand Cayman. With the increased price of flying I have been traveling fewer times but extending the trips to 10 days or longer. Only having weekend flights throws a wrench in the 10 day trips so it has to be 7 or 14.

I've never been diving on GC so it will be a new experience and give me a chance to compare the two. A little non-drift diving might be a welcome change for this trip and I can dodge the battery monster at the Cozumel airport..

 

[cvchief]

First off, I am a little offended by the rant against the grunt on the ground. Walmart rejects? Really? The gov sets a rate of pay and get what it gets. If you are only paying 20k to start or so, you can't be too picky and fill the job. I personally don't have any metal hidden in me yet, so I can't comment on that, but I have never had a bad experience with TSA. Maybe the Washington area airports are better or something? But then re-screening in TX was fine too. And Miami. Yet everyone hates these poor SOBs working the line for 20k. Sure, arrest and fire the thieves and other criminals, but do you have to insult as a group everyone? Just like you shouldn't yell at the cop about the speed limit, you should yell at whoever set the speed limit. I am sure there are a ton of decent people working the TSA lines trying to do the best that they can. It ain't all about you. I am sure that many if not all of the TSA people really don't enjoy sticking their hand in your crotch while you b$%^&, but someone wrote a procedure that when you got metal in your pants, they gotta look for a gun or whatever if they want to keep their job. Makes for a nice Saturday Night Live skit and all at the expense of the grunts.

You discount any deterrent effect and focus on two fails. First, a success may not be visible. Second, if you complain about what they missed, then the answer is to jack it up to catch it the next time, which of course means more complaint about procedures. Heck Coz a week or two ago caught a full .45 mag that was missed leaving TX, but found on the way home. You argue that planes aren't a target and maybe that is more true today. However, one can't change the fact that the most shocking terrorist attack involved aircraft. Trains and nightclubs and bus certainly might generate interest. Israel deals with that quite a bit right? Still none have the impact of 9/11. Given the opportunity, planes still have an allure. It's the terrorist's only guided missile. It ain't like you can hijack a train and hit a building.

So I humbly suggest you focus your debate where it belongs. Argue that we should not search people before they board planes. If that is a gun in your pants or a crowbar to open the cockpit door, so be it. I get the liberty argument and I can understand it, but make that argument as a willingness to assume the risk, not that it doesn't exist. Or argue how we can BETTER search people before they board planes. Both would be more productive than insulting the TSA people on the line. Tell me what you do and I will Google to find criminals and such in your profession whatever it is, doctor , lawyer or dishwasher. I feel bad for the working stiffs just trying to feed their family and do their job the way they are told to do it. Painting them all with so broad a brush is wrong.

 

[Mossman]

How about tomorrow they take your computer, your camera or your watch (most have a battery) or your diamond ring. What if that same officer opened up your wallet and took your cash and threw it in the trash can. What is the difference.

$100 of batteries versus a $1,500 laptop or camera or watch? The difference is $1,400.

When was the last time you heard of a plane going down because someone left a battery in their bags (checked or carry on). I do it every trip and tens of thousands of other people do it as well on a daily basis. Do you think there is a terrorist hiding in the baggage hold just waiting for your batteries so he can complete his bomb.

Besides the UPS 747 that crashed in Dubai because of improperly packed lithium batteries? How many examples do you need?

Try raising a stink at the airport to the Airlines or TSA just once. You will be yanked into the back room, maybe arrested and probably put on one of their black lists. Since the airlines have found out they can hide behind the TSA you can say nothing to them either or they call the TSA to their rescue. Now their service and customer service is virtually non existent.

I believe you're being a bit paranoid here. While our airport security may be more intrusive now than in past years, we're still able to voice our opinions to some extent without the KGB coming after us. Follow the standard complaint process that every government bureau has to provide and I doubt you'll be punished by being black listed. Start screaming and jumping up and down and yelling at the security checkpoint that "the damn WalMart reject is a perv because he grabbed my balls" and the result may be different.

I hope none of this does ever happens to you but if it does please please try to demand your rights and that something be done about your stolen goods or molested wife or children. What if you are traveling and one of the security guards grabs your wifes or daughters breast or other places they shouldn't go and she complains to you that they went to far. What will you do about it, will you defend her. Would you defend her to the TSA the same way if someone did the same thing to her at Sears or the local Pub. Just try it once with the TSA, I dare you. I think you will change your tune in a heartbeat.

First of all, any "molestation" isn't usually being done in private unless there's some serious need for further investigation. They're groping people right out in the open where everyone can see. That prevents your garden variety molesters from getting their kicks on teenage daughters and elderly women in diapers because their co-workers and people who send videos to YouTube would expose them when they crossed the line - especially the TSA co-workers, who I'm pretty sure are sick of being called molesters and would therefore presumably police their own in order to preserve whatever good name they have left. Second, I do believe that a bit of fondling, even if it's your wife or daughter being fondled, is a small price to pay for increased security. I've had the genital pat-down, J sometimes gets extra treatment around the breasts, big deal. As Gordon said, a minute or two of discomfort being fondled at security is nothing compared to being smashed into a tiny seat with an overflowing neighbor and being snapped at by surly flight attendants for hours, meanwhile being hit by turbulence and having a line of 12 people waiting for the bathroom when you really need to go. Air travel sucks all around.

At the least, you can use it as a learning experience for your daughter, explaining that if any boys her age dare touch her like the TSA agent is doing, you'll cut their balls off. If she's otherwise not conditioned to believe that there's anything wrong with having her genitals fondled by security at the airport, she won't suffer any emotional trauma over the ordeal. Bible thumpers who insist on going to bed with their clothes on and maintaining virginity until age 30 might feel differently about it, but as long as there isn't any sexual connotation involved, I don't consider the crotch patdown any different than having my legs patted down, and it's far less intrusive than when I go to my doc and she jams her finger up my butt.

If the TSA hires known criminals and thieves that steal your expensive equipment from your bags (watch the videos) how do you know they aren't hiring perverts and molesters too ? Would you do that job. Would you enjoy feeling up a mans junk or putting your hand in his butt crack all day long.. or as a woman feeling up a woman's private parts. In years past you would only find these people working in some very strange and bad places.

You could say the same about certain doctors and nurses. Sure, that proctologist, urologist, or gynecologist has lots of training and is presumably over-qualified for WalMart, but what kind of perv gets a job that entails examining and handling diseased genitalia all day? What kind of sicko gets a job that entails changing used bed pans and sponge bathing the genitalia of incontinent old people, yet many of these nurses are some of the most patient and kind people around that I wish more of them became flight attendants instead.

I've been looking at Grand Cayman this time since Continental is canceling all their weekday flights to Cozumel as of Aug. 15th but keeping their daily flights to Grand Cayman. With the increased price of flying I have been traveling fewer times but extending the trips to 10 days or longer. Only having weekend flights throws a wrench in the 10 day trips so it has to be 7 or 14.

I've never been diving on GC so it will be a new experience and give me a chance to compare the two. A little non-drift diving might be a welcome change for this trip and I can dodge the battery monster at the Cozumel airport..

That's how I've long felt about Bonaire with its weekend-only flights. It's such a PITA to get to, a week there is not enough, but if I'm going to take two weeks, I'll try to go somewhere more exotic than the Caribbean. 9 or 10 days would be perfect.

The north wall in Grand Cayman is pretty nice, not as stellar viz like you enjoy in Coz, but usually very good and there's some nice terrain, black corals, occasional eagle rays, lots of turtles (run off from the Turtle Farm), and a couple decent shore dives (Cobalt Coast and Turtle Farm). Stingray City is worth doing once. I haven't dove the east side, but it's supposed to be very good there too, lots of pelagic action. The west is pretty beat up from development and cruise ships, but Eden Rock is a shore dive worth doing, especially in the late afternoon/early evening when the tarpons start lurking.

 

[azscubadude]

That's how I've long felt about Bonaire with its weekend-only flights. It's such a PITA to get to, a week there is not enough, but if I'm going to take two weeks, I'll try to go somewhere more exotic than the Caribbean. 9 or 10 days would be perfect.

The north wall in Grand Cayman is pretty nice, not as stellar viz like you enjoy in Coz, but usually very good and there's some nice terrain, black corals, occasional eagle rays, lots of turtles (run off from the Turtle Farm), and a couple decent shore dives (Cobalt Coast and Turtle Farm). Stingray City is worth doing once. I haven't dove the east side, but it's supposed to be very good there too, lots of pelagic action. The west is pretty beat up from development and cruise ships, but Eden Rock is a shore dive worth doing, especially in the late afternoon/early evening when the tarpons start lurking.

I'm looking at the east side, Compass Point to be exact. Looks like a great place with excellent ratings. Going to have a car for the week so I can drive around to explore all the others.

I haven't been to Bonaire since the early 90's (might have been before that) and would go back but your reason is exactly the reason I don't. When I was there the first time (long ago aboard the Antilles Aggressor) I think there was just one condo complex on the island and they had just started selling the units. We docked at the small town pier and dove the pier as well as Klein Bonaire. It was like a ghost town at that time compared to now.

 

[Mossman]

Go back and read my post. There's no need for a 6 BILLION DOLLAR A YEAR deterrent. If there were terrorists wanting to blow up planes, they'd be blowing up other places that don't have junk-touchers at every entrance. Can you tell me why they're not? Why are our buses, subways, trains, nightclubs not being blown up if there are so many terrorists on American soil trying to blow us up? Why are we spending 6 BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR protecting just this ONE thing? Please go back and read my post...and come back with an explanation that justifies this outrageous waste of money.

Planes are special. We've always had heightened security for airplanes, well before 9/11. Perhaps it's because they are so easy to bring down, a small hole will do, and there are usually hundreds aboard, not to mention the population of whatever the plane hits. Lots of nightclubs now have metal detectors, which they didn't have in the past. They're to the point where airlines were pre-9/11. As soon as we have a terrorist incident in a nightclub, I can promise you more pat-downs and such in those venues.

I've been in several buildings in downtown L.A. where we had to show I.D. and they checked the trunk and ran a mirror under the car in order to get into the parking lot, so it's not just airports that have heightened security.

You seem to have the mistaken impression I want NO security at airports. You are wrong. I want security that doesn't abuse our rights, and our bodies. Touching the genitals of innocent civilians is WRONG. If I was an idiot teenage boy trying to smuggle beer into a concert, then I get what I deserve. I'm not. I'm a law-abiding middle-aged woman, and *I* should get to decide who touches my vagina. And power-hungry Wallmart rejects are not among the people I choose to touch my vagina.

That's nice, but the cop didn't know there was beer in pants until he grabbed my crotch. Before that, I was just a presumed-innocent teenage boy with a large bulge. How does TSA know you're not a formerly law-abiding middle-aged woman recently turned terrorist/smuggler/hijacker until they do the search? How can they avoid the vagina if all you have to do to evade getting caught is to stash your weapon in your vagina? It's the same reason they can't skip searching babies or elderly women in full diapers or, as some would have it, all people who don't "look Muslim".

I'm sad that you so easily allow our government to exceed its role and its power over us. That's what we have a Constitution for...and they are violating it. And I'm not the only person who feels this way - not by a long shot.

We have a constitution that limits government intrusion into our private lives to some extent, but when we voluntarily submit to the searches as we do when we voluntarily travel by air, there are no constitutional protections. It's the same as if you get pulled over and a cop wants to search your trunk. You have the right to say no and if there's no probable cause to search, the search would be unconstitutional and anything illegal discovered thereby would be inadmissible in court. On the other hand, if you say "sure, go ahead and search" and they find your stash or your guns, you've given up your right to complain. Going to the airport and standing in line is the same as saying "sure, go ahead and search". If you don't like the way they search, you don't have to submit to it.

Comparing the complaints of people who've been violated by TSA with people who don't like cramped seats is just...nuts. I'm very sad that you feel that way, and if I had more time I would post more that I believe would help you to see how wrong this is...and how many people in America are fighting against it. But I have to go catch my flight home now. Bye.

It's not "nuts" when I dismiss their complaints of "violations" as annoying whining, just as I don't want to hear some teenager complain about boot camp. You signed up for it, you didn't have to go, what did you expect?

Sure, there might be thousands that complain, but out of 800,000,000 or so passengers a year flying out of U.S. airports, that's a tiny, tiny drop in the bucket, an extreme minority view, and should therefore be dismissed as such, "nuts" or not. Even if there were 80,000 complaints a year, that only amounts to 0.01% of the total. Why should the other 799,920,000 passengers who have positive experiences like me give a hoot?

 

[Mossman]

I'm looking at the east side, Compass Point to be exact. Looks like a great place with excellent ratings. Going to have a car for the week so I can drive around to explore all the others.

I haven't been to Bonaire since the early 90's (might have been before that) and would go back but your reason is exactly the reason I don't. When I was there the first time (long ago aboard the Antilles Aggressor) I think there was just one condo complex on the island and they had just started selling the units. We docked at the small town pier and dove the pier as well as Klein Bonaire. It was like a ghost town at that time compared to now.

Since there's no bridge connecting the west and east points, the only way between the two by road is to drive all the way around the south. It's definitely worth it for a day to see the land sights and do a couple shore dives on the west, but it's a full day involved (unlike Bonaire where you can pretty much circle the entire island in a half-hour). You can get tanks and weights at the dive shops at both aforementioned shore dive sites and there are convenient benches on the dock for gearing up, rinse showers, and usually some cold drinking water. At the Turtle Farm site there's a good inexpensive lunch restaurant on the waterfront (the Cracked Conch) as well as an outdoor bar that opens in the later afternoon, perfect for a drink after climbing out of the water. Hmmm, why is it that talking about it is making me want to go back?

Bonaire still remains pretty undeveloped, at least where the dive sites are located north and south of town, and retains the laid-back feeling that Cozumel lost IMO when they moved Carlos & Charlies from the funky upstairs location into the horrid "Puta" Langosta monstrosity. Kind of hard to be laid-back and also the most popular cruiseship port on earth.

I haven't been to Grand Cayman since 2007, when they had newly constructed a bypass road to avoid the stop-and-stop-some-more traffic on the 7-mile-beach road. A friend just returned a couple weeks ago from a cruise there - she lived on the island for 6 months, but hadn't been back since 2003 - and reports that development has gotten out of control, practically the entire island is paved over, and crime reports are up, including gang activity. Hyperbole, maybe, but it's definitely not an undeveloped Caribbean hideaway by any means. I'd love to make it to one of the sister islands some day, which I understand are as undeveloped as ever, but as that involves either American Airlines or a luggage-limited island hopper, it's still on my to-do list until I can figure out a better way to get there. Had considered the Cayman Aggressor, but their success rates in making the crossing to the sister islands are barely over 50%.

 

[DandyDon]

When was the last time you heard of a plane going down because someone left a battery in their bags (checked or carry on). I do it every trip and tens of thousands of other people do it as well on a daily basis. Do you think there is a terrorist hiding in the baggage hold just waiting for your batteries so he can complete his bomb.

Besides the UPS 747 that crashed in Dubai because of improperly packed lithium batteries? How many examples do you need?

"Flight 6 contained a large quantity of lithium batteries" UPS Airlines Flight 6 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[azscubadude]

"Flight 6 contained a large quantity of lithium batteries" UPS Airlines Flight 6 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I'd heard that this crash was the result of carrying a huge quantity (pallet or pallets) of lithium batteries but I didn't realize, until reading this, that the main problem was the fire suppressant used in the plane's fire system didn't work on this type of fire like it would have if it were a fire in a normal baggage hold.

Every time I buy a new camera or backup battery and it is shipped via FedEx or UPS.. they now have a contract with the USPS to ship a lot of their cargo. I didn't know this until I got a return slip from FedEx (or USP, can't remember) a while back and it said to drop it off at one of their locations OR the local post office. I questioned the postal clerk and he was the one that told me they now share (somehow or for some reason) shipping, drop off, etc. All of DHL's packages are handed off to USPS now, they don't deliver anything, just pick it up and turn it over to USPS.

The majority if not all of the US Mail is shipped via commercial airlines (i.e. United, Continental and all the big boys) so that means a lot of the same prohibited things are just under the floor in the cargo hold, loose and in the box.