Couple detained in Cozumel until chamber bill paid

[Lorenzoid]

@Lorenzoid. I think I am missing your point about your insurance deductible in relationship to DAN insurance, and yes, I know you said you have DAN insurance. DAN is a secondary payer, and according to their insurance handbook "...DAN coverage is secondary coverage. After any other coverage you may have, DAN pays up to 100 percent of reasonable and customary costs of all remaining eligible expenses." So, I am assuming whatever your insurance company does not pay toward your medical bill for a dive injury, DAN would be the secondary payer, and cover the rest. In the case of the diver above needing a chamber ride, and billed for $1200, my point was simply that DAN's $75/year cost for the Preferred Plan (in Texas) could be had for 16 years for the price of his co-pay on this one issue. If he had needed a medevac, his bill might have been astronomical. Sorry, but not paying @$75 a year for dive insurance makes no sense to me at any level. If money is that tight, divers should just skip a two tank dive once a year to pay the premium.

No disagreement. I had in mind the more expensive Guardian Plan that my wife and I have, but yeah, same thing if considering the Preferred Plan: If the diver in this story had made a decision to put $75 a year into his bank account (or even some better investment account) because he decided his primary insurance would cover the most likely scenarios out of all the unlikely scenarios, and he might be left to someday (maybe 16 years later) pay a couple of thousand dollars out of pocket, I would not call him foolish, as some in this thread seem to be saying. I won't second guess his decision by calling buying DAN insurance a "no brainer" or not buying it "careless." I myself would choose differently, but I will not criticize people who appear to have weighed the information and reached a decision, even if I personally would reach a different decision. Insurance companies are profitable because they know the probabilities of customers needing a chamber ride or evacuation. How many recreational divers have spent an entire lifetime diving all over the world without needing either? If someone has primary insurance that covers a chamber ride, and they have the financial means to cover out-of-pocket expenses of a few thousand dollars in the unlikely event of an incident, those are things I can understand a person might take into consideration. Again, I'm not advocating this for everyone; I'm only saying that calling it irrational to not buy secondary accident insurance such as DAN or DiveAssure is too harsh.

 

[Snoweman]

Everybody talks about DAN insurance, however, I choose DiveAssure. I am the person who reads insurance policies, which are written in small letters DAN provides different coverage (also different pricing) if you are based in USD, Europe and Asia-Pacific region. Also, there are different coverages (non-diving accident included in one policy, in other they are not included and et.). I am currently based in Asia-Pacific region and was comparing DAN Asia-Pac and DiveAssure policies, coverage and pricing. DiveAssure was a better deal for me as it is PRIMARY insurance and in case happens to you they pay directly to hospital. DAN covers your expenses in case Primary insurance does not cover them. Also, you might be required to pay bill first from your own pocket, submit docs to DAN and get reimbursement.

In my opinion, diving insurance is a must. You might dive for 20 years without any accident, however, if you have accident and a located in remote location, you might need helicopter to transfer you to appropriate facility. In this case costs could be astronomical.

Also, before purchasing any insurance, read in detail what is covered and what is not.

Because DiveAssure is primary insurance, that is problematic for folks living in certain states. For me, living in GA, DiveAssure will not cover me for dives within the US and its territories. That's because of Georgia's insurance regulations requiring providers to have a physical presence in the state. Secondary insurance apparently isn't subject to this requirement.

 

[Olariuas]

DiveAssure was a better deal for me as it is PRIMARY insurance and in case happens to you they pay directly to hospital. DAN covers your expenses in case Primary insurance does not cover them. Also, you might be required to pay bill first from your own pocket, submit docs to DAN and get reimbursement.

Also, before purchasing any insurance, read in detail what is covered and what is not.

@Efka76

Any reason to subscribe DAN and DiveAssure or Aquamed ?
Aquamed is PRIMARY insurance ?

I just made a quote annual cover + at least 120 days of travel
- DAN Sport Gold: 210 €

- DiveAssure DiveSafe: 69 € / Dive&Travel: 169 € / 239 €
or
- Aquamed Dive&Travel : 78 €


- DAN Sport Gold + DiveAssure Dive&Travel = 379 / 12 = 32 € monthly
- DAN Sport Gold + Aquamed Dive&Travel = 288 / 12 = 24 € monthly

In term of annual insurrance cost this is nearly nothing. This is not even the cost of a rec dive...

When I was student and started to dive 5 years ago my instructor suggested me to think about saving money into a blocked bank account in case of emergency or any other specific need. I think now it's a great advice- was maybe stupid at that time cause I was young and told myself why the hell would I save up around 200 € monthly for something I must only use for emergency ... but I'm happy that he suggested me that.

 

[ggunn]

Diving is all about risk management, and dive specific insurance is part of the picture. As with any other insurance, if you pay your premiums and never file a claim, it is money "wasted". If you don't carry insurance and something major happens that it would have covered, then in retrospect it would have been money well spent. Hindsight is always 20:20.

I carry DAN insurance when I dive, but to each his/her own.

 

[Olariuas]

Yeah insurance must not be forgotten or taken lightly. Specially for 400 € yearly or just 210 € for Gold DAN. I honestly prefer to get full refund than spending cash or have the situation described into this thread.

The best example is car insurance a lot of drivers do not have them and this is scary- and bring issues when you have to file a claim. And it's freaking hard to deal with drivers with no insurance specially if this is serious (lethal). I have no idea if US Driver insurance got malus / bonus points (if you get accidents you pay more, if you have 0 accident you pay less and each year it's updated) but this can be kinda cool for a diving insurance.

First year car insurance I paid 1020 € yearly, today after 10 years without any accident I just pay 612 €, and in 3 years (touch wood) fixed quote at 510 € / 42.50 € monthly.

 

[ReefHound]

My wife and I have been diving for 16 years and we have never wasted our $ on any form of dive insurance. If I had purchased DAN Guardian level at $125 per diver per year that would be $4,000 thrown away over the years for SECONDARY insurance. People purchase all this insurance as the insurance companies love to sell it and they are very savvy at marketing it. It sounds great but those who purchase it never read the full 50+ pages of the policy.

I get your point overall as people in the US have been scaremongered into covering any possible contingency no matter how small in amount or how unlikely. You can't buy a $20 toaster online without getting prompted to cover it for another $3.

My philosophy is to buy insurance to cover losses I cannot comfortably sustain. I seldom buy flight insurance. I seldom buy the extended warranty on a product. I seldom buy shipping insurance. But I'm buying dive insurance because while I can't accurately determine my potential losses (could be $5k or $50k) I'm pretty sure those losses could be beyond my ability to sustain.

 

[Lorenzoid]

I get your point overall as people in the US have been scaremongered into covering any possible contingency no matter how small in amount or how unlikely. You can't buy a $20 toaster online without getting prompted to cover it for another $3.

My philosophy is to buy insurance to cover losses I cannot comfortably sustain. I seldom buy flight insurance. I seldom buy the extended warranty on a product. I seldom buy shipping insurance. But I'm buying dive insurance because while I can't accurately determine my potential losses (could be $5k or $50k) I'm pretty sure those losses could be beyond my ability to sustain.

Well said! I buy auto insurance not so much to cover a few thousand dollars should I cause damage to my or someone else's car but more to cover the unlikely event I cause someone's serious injury or death, in which case I could be held liable for hundreds of thousands or even a million dollars--"beyond my ability to sustain" as you put it.

The principle of insurance is that the less likely an event is and the less costly the remedy, the less costly it is to insure against it. Insurance companies are betting that their customers will pay more in premiums over the years than the company pays out in claims--and they win the bet more often than not. We the consumers of insurance may try our best to weigh the risk against the cost as well. Though we amateur actuaries are no match for the insurance companies, it seems reasonable to me that some people would go through that mental exercise and make a decision. Deciding to protect oneself with some mix of insurance and self-insurance--building up an emergency cash reserve over the years--doesn't seem unreasonable to me. As an example, like many Americans these days, I have high-deductible health insurance. People like me pay a lot out of pocket for healthcare every year. One article I found says that almost 25% of Americans have no emergency savings, and 40% can't cover a $400 emergency. I have to believe those people aren't scuba diving. Judging by the number of SB'ers who post trip reports on what I estimate are $10,000 liveaboard trips, there are divers (not me!) who are capable of self-insuring, at least to some extent. Even a $50,000 evacuation would not bankrupt them. Someone who always dives conservatively, in places relatively close to home, like Cozumel to us North Americans, and has no pre-disposing conditions such as a PFO, may possibly be able to foot the bill in the very unlikely event of someday having an episode of DCS. For me, my age is a predisposing factor, and if I were more of a risk-taker I might go so far as to say that the money I spend in insurance premiums might be more wisely invested in a personal trainer to maximize my cardiovascular fitness! Given my personal circumstances, including how I dive, I'm far more likely to suffer a cardiac event than DCS. I suppose the more aggressively one dives, the more one dives in remote locations, etc., the more costly an emergency might be, and the more insurance one might want to have. But insuring against every misfortune, right down to the demise of that $20 toaster you mention, may not make sense.

 

[Brules]

My wife and I have been diving for 16 years and we have never wasted our $ on any form of dive insurance. If I had purchased DAN Guardian level at $125 per diver per year that would be $4,000 thrown away over the years for SECONDARY insurance. People purchase all this insurance as the insurance companies love to sell it and they are very savvy at marketing it. It sounds great but those who purchase it never read the full 50+ pages of the policy.

For those who think DAN is going to charter you a private med-evac jet back to the states from Coz in a medical emergency that is absolutely NOT going to happen. I simply view it as co-insurance that will cover our deductible on my stateside plan (which also is not going to pay for a private med jet from Coz to the states).

Everyone has to do what they have to to sleep well on vaca. I don't need DAN insurance to sleep well. I hope everyone does know that DAN insurance isn't really "DAN" insurance... DAN is just a brand name that is underwritten and sold by multiple insurance companies state by state in the US and everywhere else it is marketed.

Hope you continue to have safe dives and never need anything like it. Couple at my hotel 2 years ago dropped DAN as they had never needed it over 10+ years. She had a pulmonary edema on Devils Throat and almost died. Hospital bill was a whopper. Needless to say they regretted it.

 

[Olariuas]

I know you need to call DAN or other insurances before to go into an hospital for hyp treatment;
Does it means that you have to call your PRIMARY insurance (DiveAssure) before to do anything else and then DAN insurance ?

 

[Lorenzoid]

Hope you continue to have safe dives and never need anything like it. Couple at my hotel 2 years ago dropped DAN as they had never needed it over 10+ years. She had a pulmonary edema on Devils Throat and almost died. Hospital bill was a whopper. Needless to say they regretted it.

It sounds like they didn't have any other insurance. Getting back to the circumstances of the OP in this thread, if the couple you mention had had primary health insurance that covered events like that, then maybe dropping DAN would seem less irrational. It all depends on one's circumstances. (I don't know @deepsea21 's circumstances--I'm just speaking generally.)