Coroners Report. What do you think!

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Unfortunately a panicked diver may not give up the donated reg without a struggle.

The training I was given included how to maintain control of the reg, to insure you got another breath. The person I was buddied with, was shall we say reluctant to return the reg and I had to forcibly retrieve it each time, which was more stressful than I needed. That OW class was the first time I had encountered a serious issue with buddy breathing in 17 years, and immediately after I purchased an alternate second.

The two biggest issues with buddy breathing is trusting your buddy to return the reg and knowing how long you can go without getting another breath. Unfortunately training today does not prepare the diver for either.
 
The two biggest issues with buddy breathing is trusting your buddy to return the reg and knowing how long you can go without getting another breath. Unfortunately training today does not prepare the diver for either.
You find similar issues in other areas of training. For example, drivers education classes no longer teach students how to turn the crank in the front of the car to start the engine, so if they ever have to drive a car like that, they won't know how to do it. Just another example of a dumbing down of education!
 
. Just another example of a dumbing down of education!

If you would point out where I stated the training was dumbed down, I would appreciate that.

Because of the differences from when I learned to dive, I pointed out that I started carrying an alternate, and do to this day.

The usefulness of trusting your buddy, and knowing how long one can go without a breath underwater is useful in emergencies other than buddy breathing. Although I haven't seen it, insta buddies are unreliable and can kill you according to some threads on ScubaBoard. And knowing your endurance underwater is useful when deciding to swim to your buddy or do a csea when OOA, for one example.


I know how to crank a car without breaking a wrist, I don't expect that out of others, which is why I have an alternate second.
 
Although I haven't seen it, insta buddies are unreliable and can kill you according to some threads on ScubaBoard.
According to your profile, you've been diving since before I was born. And I'm not exactly young anymore.

And you still haven't seen this purportedly very common phenomenon? Hmmm... Strange, that.
 
The training I was given included how to maintain control of the reg, to insure you got another breath. The person I was buddied with, was shall we say reluctant to return the reg and I had to forcibly retrieve it each time, which was more stressful than I needed. That OW class was the first time I had encountered a serious issue with buddy breathing in 17 years, and immediately after I purchased an alternate second.

The two biggest issues with buddy breathing is trusting your buddy to return the reg and knowing how long you can go without getting another breath. Unfortunately training today does not prepare the diver for either.

The following incident was told as part of the lecture given by the head of the local chamber when they did an educational program a couple of years ago (got to take a ride in the chamber, too).

It happened sometime in the 90s. A woman and her husband were taking a scuba class at the local Y. They were buddy breathing in 4ft of water. The husband didn’t want to give the reg back. The woman suddenly stood up. She was holding her breath. She got an AGE and got taken to the chamber.
 
It happened sometime in the 90s. A woman and her husband were taking a scuba class at the local Y. They were buddy breathing in 4ft of water. The husband didn’t want to give the reg back. The woman suddenly stood up. She was holding her breath. She got an AGE and got taken to the chamber.

Now is this to point out that one should never hold their breath whilst diving, or that buddy breathing is inherently dangerous?
 
Now is this to point out that one should never hold their breath whilst diving, or that buddy breathing is inherently dangerous?

Your post mentioned that your buddy breathing training included maintaining control of the reg, to make sure you got another breath. It reminded me of this, that’s all.
 
Unfortunately a panicked diver may not give up the donated reg without a struggle.
Not to prolong this or hijack the thread, but my contention is that that's pretty much an Urban Legend. In other words, it doesn't happen on any mass scale. Not to say it hasn't happened once or twice.

We actually had a very good debate about this years ago on the old AOL Scuba Forum (or whatever it was called). And we did a survey and asked for anyone who had first-hand (happened to them) or second-hand (happened to someone they personally) knowledge to share the story. And we couldn't find anyone who could document it.

Not to make this political, but it's like the current allegations of massive voter fraud. You can't just sagely nod your head like it's true. Show evidence. Same here. Many people accept that "buddy breathing is dangerous because (1) Both people might die, (2) The OOA diver won't give back the reg, or (3) It's too hard to learn." Show the proof. I don't think it's there.
 
I learned to dive in 1970, nobody had a second regulator, we were taught buddy breathing. Nobody ever ran out of gas, never really tried this. For quite a while I dived an Air2, so would have had to primary donate. Tried it once with my son during Deep Diver, worked fine. Again nobody ever ran out of gas so never really used this. Switched to a 40" primary and bungeed 2nd, so still primary donate. Nobody has ever run out of gas, haven't really tested this either. I've been mostly solo diving for many years now, still have a reg I could donate though.
 
. . .Dr. Glen Egstrom, who sadly passed away last year, did a study of buddy breathing. He determined that for a specific buddy team to be confident of doing it well in a real life situation, they would need to have completed 17 successful performances in training sessions. They would thus be confident of performing the skill as a team. He also said that team would need to keep practicing it, because the skill is perishable."
I knew Glenn and discussed this with him from time to time. First of all, I don't think the study was just about buddy-breathing. The paper covered what it took to master ANY skill. And the actual number was 17-21 times. But you're correct about the key word being "successful." Glenn's point wasn't you couldn't just make 20 attempts and when you got #21 correct you'd mastered the skill. It was only successful attempts that counted. (I thought I had a copy of the study - and it was likely done in to 60s or 70s - but I can't find it.)
I have only heard of one attempt at buddy breathing in a real OOA situation in the last couple decades . . .
Allow me to share a real-world buddy-breathing story from one of my students. The caveat is that this was from the late 80s or early 90s, and bear in mind that rental gear back then did not always have alternate airs/octos.

Married couple, no major problems in class. I routinely taught buddy-breathing and during the 4 3-hour pool sessions, you buddy-breathed multiple times in each of them. Sometimes stationary, sometimes on the move doing laps around the pool. I also emphasized that prior to any day of diving, you should review and practice your emergency OOA procedures before you got into the water.

Shortly after being certified, couple decides to go dive the Avalon Underwater Park on Catalina, where we'd done some of our training dives, to do some fun dives on their own. As background, he has a bit of a tendency towards seasickness. Also as background, one of things I always taught - but never had them demonstrate or practice - was that if you were underwater and thought you were going to throw up, keep the reg in your mouth and throw up through it. This is because there's an involuntary inhale after you vomit and with no reg in your mouth, you might inhale seawater, start choking or trigger a laryngospasm, and none of the would be good. Worst case would be the vomitus would clog the reg and you'd get no air back. But you wouldn't get water.

They're doing a dive, maybe 40 feet deep and in kelp, and it's a a little surgy. He starts to feel nauseous, it gets worse. he signals wife and realizes he's about to vomit. Camps the reg to his mouth and vomits through reg. Reg clogs. Drops reg from mouth, gives out-of-air sign (slash across throat) to wife, she takes a breath and donates reg to him, they face each other, get arm positions secure, do a couple of passes back and forth, each signals the other they are ready to ascend, and they do so, buddy-breathing on the way up, and glancing upwards to chart an untangled path through the kelp to the surface above. They surface successfully, inflate BCs, shake his reg out to clear it, confirm it works, discuss what happened, decide to resume dive, all continues without further incident.

Buddy-breathing is not a dangerous or difficult skill if it's practiced and kept current.
 
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