Considering a Rebreather....

[Diving Dubai]

To all so far: Thanks for the replies (even if some are slightly more than layman's terms) Having a local support network of others who had similar, as well as limiting myself to units where I can get local training were part of my thought process too.

@JohnnyC Thanks for the book info, will definitely get that.

So a couple of reasons of why I might go down this road,

Interaction with fish life for video is one:
Also every month I go on a 2d/2n trip because of the location the conditions and currents are unpredictable thus means sites can't be fully planned in advance. This means instead of just taking enough tanks for the amount of dives, I end up taking possibly double the amount to give myself options on mix - even then I'm in a position of do I use X mix on this dive, or shall I save it for dive Y So having a unit that gives me the right mix for the dive as well as having capacity for 2 days diving with the minimum of consumable changes does appeal. If I'm barking up the wrong tree please let me know

Although I've limited myself to the 40m range it's not where I intend to stay it's just the current limit of my training thus far.

Cost - If cost was a logical decision I would have anywhere near the kit I have for my addiction, and if you take into acoount the F150 I brought 2 years ago to haul my kit, and the 30' day boat I have which has just had 2 new outboards, the cost of a re breather and training is quite reasonable...

I think I've been around enough to sift forum bias.. at the very least when people start debating things it gives you an indication of what to research further...

For the OP you might want to first develop a list of which units are actually practical for your area. Usually that means at least one other diver has one locally already.

Then decide on the next issues:
mCC, hCCR, or eCCR
front, top of shoulder, or backmounted counterlung
axial or radial scrubber
overall WOB
flood tolerance/acceptance
what can you afford.

Usually these factors (some probably more important that others) are going to drive your choices down to 1 or 2 units. Try those units and pick one. Get trained and start diving it. You will learn what you really like or dislike over time and hours. If something is truly an insurmountable hurdle (unlikely) then sell it and get something else.

I wouldn't know where to start to actually decide on most of that list because I don't know the pro's and con's and how they affect the overall set up (in simple terms)

I do know that because of my location anything that only allows pre-packed scrubbers is out.

Similarly for all the brands suggested, again I could print off all the manufacturers data side by side and still be none the wiser.

But please keep on giving info..

@RainPilot - thanks for the offer I'll text you after Eid and we can finally do that coffee...

 

[The Chairman]

I am pretty sure Net Doc was certified on at least one unit before buying his first rebreather (and SF2). Someone can search, there was a very long thread on his experience and reasoning.

Yes. Take your time. Rebreathers are stupid expensive and the decision should not be taken lightly. Most people won't be buying a second rebreather so this is more than likely a one shot deal. I was going to get certified on the Buddy I many, many years ago, but my instructor, BigJetDriver died on his about a week before my class was to begin. That alone kept me off rebreathers for almost ten years. I was did get certified on both rEvo and KISS rebreathers, but they just didn't make sense for me. However, once I saw an SF2 being side mounted in a cave (Ginnie Springs), I was sold.

Here are the things that were important to me in no particular order.

• Engineering. I didn't want an RB that look like it came out of a garage. I also wanted to know that any possible problems would be taken care of professionally and timely.
• Versatility. It was important that I could back mount (Ocean) and side mount (Caves) the unit. Of course, I didn't want either version to look like it had been cobbled together in a garage.
• Clutter. I hate it. I needed a rebreather that didn't take over my chest. I've refined my diving over the years and have tried to standardize between my side mount and back mount diving. The SF2 has to be the cleanest eCCR out there.
• Breathability. Yeah, I liked what I saw back in Ginnie, but I didn't make a final decision until I dove the unit. I liked the breathing better than the other two I had trained on. Trim was a bit more important on this unit than the others, but that sweet spot was awesome.
• Shearwater Electronics. I'm a huge believer that electronics don't get Narced and Shearwater has proven themselves to me over the years. Their BusCan system is ultra reliable and brings a level of redundancy to breathers that increases safety significantly.
• Instructor. This might be the most important part of the decision. It was for me. Given the price of the rebreather, having to travel should not be a big deal. Find someone you can trust with your life. We've had two rebreather training deaths this year alone and the instructor's inattention played a roll in both incidents. Tom McCarthy was like a mother hen and a merciless drill sergeant rolled into one! He was gentle but thorough, thorough, thorough. He was checking my unit throughout all the training dives. I learned more in his class than the other two combined.
• Path to instructor. I don't know that I will become a RB Instructor. However, I'm not going to invest in a unit where that's an impossibility. I want to keep my options open. This is probably not an issue for most.

OK, so you know what I was looking for. Here's what I didn't worry about...

• Parts. Really? It's not something you have to worry about in this global economy. Many of the parts are off the shelf.
• What my buddies are diving. Really? I could care less about them in that regard. I want what's right for ME.

Regrets? Only one. I never got to try the JJ. It may be the only unit out there I haven't tried. I'm still way happy with my SF2. Every dive finds me tweaking something, making it easier and easier to dive. I just made a "booster seat" for my unit. It sits too low when I'm on a boat, so I'm lifting it up 9 inches to make donning and doffing a lot easier.

Again, don't push it! Let your choice come to you. I knew what I wanted when I finally saw it. Read all you can, but find a way to dive that sucker before you commit. A smart instructor will allow you to train on a unit and then apply the rental towards the purchase of a new unit if you decide it's for you. Yes, I think it prudent to train on more than one unit. I also think it prudent to have more than one instructor. Learning different approaches in engineering and instruction will make you a better "Rebreatherer".

 

[rjack321]

You wouldn't, but the point is that you would be far more equipped to even ask the appropriate questions about different rebreathers with training. Are you saying that it's better to just buy a unit without being a rebreather diver at all? I mean, that's what most people probably do, and it's certainly cheaper, but the point of my post is that training on a rental unit has value.

I'm about to pull the trigger on buying the JJ because I really did like a lot of things about it, but I considered doing a couple of test flights on other units after training. Those test flights would be worth a lot more than the ones I did before training.

Also, some people might do the training and decide that it isn't for them, which is easier when you haven't already put 10K into the project.

I don't think training on a rental unit has that much value. Most people don't do it because it's only one unit anyway. Do a demo dive on as many units as you can sure. But you won't really know what you love or hate until long after class and once you've had a number of hours on the chosen unit anyway.

I wouldn't know where to start to actually decide on most of that list because I don't know the pro's and con's and how they affect the overall set up (in simple terms)
...

You can search on those terms here and on RBW

You won't find one master thread with a decision tree for you.

 

[stuartv]

I went to a Dive Rite demo day at the local quarry a few weeks ago. I paid $50 and got a mini-class and then about a 30 minute dive on an O2ptima. Before that, I'd read about SCR and CCR and spent two weeks diving every day with a buddy with a JJ. I still feel like I learned more in that one day trying out an O2ptima than everything I had learned about rebreathers up to that point.

For what rebreathers cost, spending the money to demo a few units seems WELL worth it, to me.

In particular, before I bought one, I think I would like to demo different units so I could experience for myself the difference between front and back mounted counterlungs and between neoprene and other (ballistic nylon?) counterlungs. The O2ptima I demoed had front mounted ballistic (or whatever - not neoprene, I don't think) counter lungs. I did not really like how crowded my upper chest and the area around my ears felt. But, the tradeoffs between that and BM counterlungs might still make me choose front mounted. I will only really know by trying them both.

If it's a unit you're considering, but you can't demo one locally, then does that mean you probably also won't get service and parts locally very easily? Maybe not, but still something to think about, I'd say.

 

[Diving Dubai]

I believe I will be able to get some demos on some different units. But I'm not sure how helpful that will really be.

To use an analogy:

Years ago when I was stupid enough to play golf, I wanted some new clubs. In the end it took 10 sessions to get to a choice. What felt right one day felt wrong the next and so on and so forth. At least I have food for thought and more avenues to pursue research

 

[stuartv]

Maybe. If you were fresh out of OW, I would think you're more right.

On the O2ptima, I pretty quickly noticed and asked about the limitations on my breathing because of the counterlung volume. I could definitely tell a difference in the WOB between it and my normal OC regs. And I can tell a big difference in my OC regs between when I'm horizontal and face down versus horizontal but face up (sort of simulating back versus front mount counterlungs).

I bet you'll notice more differences between different ones than you think. And consistently - not random differences that change every time you try them.

Of course, I've only tried one, so what do I know?

 

[rjack321]

I believe I will be able to get some demos on some different units. But I'm not sure how helpful that will really be.

To use an analogy:

Years ago when I was stupid enough to play golf, I wanted some new clubs. In the end it took 10 sessions to get to a choice. What felt right one day felt wrong the next and so on and so forth. At least I have food for thought and more avenues to pursue research

Very much agree. But a few try dives on different units can eliminate ones that are just an inherently poor fit for your needs/wants. The biggest elimination factor is usually availability of the unit and training in the first place though.

 

[doctormike]

I don't think training on a rental unit has that much value. Most people don't do it because it's only one unit anyway. Do a demo dive on as many units as you can sure. But you won't really know what you love or hate until long after class and once you've had a number of hours on the chosen unit anyway.

I'm assuming that we are discussing one's first rebreather.

As far as I can tell, the main reasons not to train on a rental unit before buying are cost and time. I agree, that if those are significant considerations, then that would make rental less appealing. But considering the overall cost of rebreather diving and the time commitment, I still think that a class before purchase is a great investment. There is no way that someone who is not a certified CCR diver can ask the same questions, and make the same analysis as someone who is when considering buying their first rebreather.

Realistically, what is the downside (apart from cost and time) of getting certified before buying? Even if you buy another unit, and have to crossover, it certainly doesn't hurt to have more knowledge, right?

The demo dives that you do before certification (I did three) are never going to be as helpful as those you do after. Although I guess some people would do a try dive and absolutely hate it, so they would save the cost of training...

 

[rjack321]

Realistically, what is the downside (apart from cost and time) of getting certified before buying?

Because its only 1 unit. You got nothing to compare to anyway.

If you decide you hate it and crossover using a 2nd rental unit you are just continuing the process of using up training and rental dollars. How would you know the problem isn't the unit its <you>?

Just bite the bullet and buy something feasible. Which just gets back to where we started. Realistically there aren't that many (preferably used) units in any given country that are available, with training, and part of your pool of buddies. So much bloody handwringing over something so simple.

 

[JohnnyC]

Buy a Meg, a Revo, or a JJ. Simon Nadim is in Fujairah and is an instructor for all of those. You'll have local parts support.

Don't listen to people who don't own a rebreather. Don't listen to people who have only done a try dive. Doing one try dive isn't enough to evaluate a unit against another unless you're already well versed in rebreather diving and it's more of a "crossover" try dive than your first experience with a rebreather.

It's a whole other type of diving. The same rules don't apply. You really have to experience it for yourself.