Confused about REC vs TEC for "certain" activities!

[Wolfie]

All diving requires Attention to detail and a lot of respect, not just tech. And so yes you may be a little cavalier or ignorant, which is common as the training agencies have IMHO dumbed down the training to avoid all that scary stuff that you are now reading about. So yes, read, learn, train, be humble, enjoy. And yes dive within your limits, push the edge every now and again, expand your limits. Have fun.

 

[markmantei]

Well there has been some good info so far but I'm not ready to jump in just yet.

No reason to be in a rush. Just get out and dive. There are a lot of things to see and do within recreational limits. Nothing wrong with doing dives that are within your skill level and building to more challenging dives. After you have more dives under your belt you can decide what direction you want to go in and take the additional training that gets you there.

Night diving is definitely getting more into the extreme end and I plan on doing that but as for the rest, for me, I'm just not sure yet if the risk is worth the reward.....

With the proper skills and equipment it does not need to be a great risk. Usually night dives are done shallow and shorter than dives you would undertake during the day, at least at a more recreational level. Plus the training is usually termed night/limited vis. I would go out on a limb to say that "limited vis" would be the situation more often encountered, and having the skills to deal with low viz conditions is not a bad thing. Plus doing the course can reinforce good buddy skills that are critical and which can help your "normal" diving as well.

So what is the actual difference then? Is it considered a cavern because you are still in the light zone whereas cave is pitch black? Or is there a size requirement? If I came across a big open space the size of "one" movie theater would you consider that a cavern whereas the exit hallway would be a cave? To be honest, they both pretty much look the same to me and in either case you're still under an overhead. Where is the differentiation? What dictates the shift and how is either one really different from the other?

I believe the difference is the distance from an exit and the ability to see light, although the second part can be played a little loose if you do some "cavern" cenote tours in Mexico (I don't think it is necessarily unsafe, as we're not talking large distances distances, you just need to be more respectful of the potential and have the skills and equipment to deal with potential issues).

 

[Agility]

The distinction between rec and tec seems to be rather fuzzy
originally a recreational dive had to be one with direct access to the surface at any time (no overhead, no deco obligation) but now wreck penetration courses are held by "recreational" agencies

 

[Davemohio]

I have dived only a few caverns. Also dived some cenotes.

I believe most cavern courses only require a single tank. Perferably big and steel.

I found the challenges of caverns in N Florida are the springs and the current/push they produce.

I used to think the rule of thirds was too conservative. I do not feel that way now.

 

[waterpirate]

The lines and reasons are definately blurry for a clear definition of the differance. Since you said you were strictly PADI, Check out the DSAT descriptions on the web, and accept that definition of tech for a starting point.
Eric

 

[Colliam7]

Well there has been some good info so far but I'm not ready to jump in just yet. Could be a very long time if ever. Tec diving appears to demand alot of attention to detail and alot of respect, both of which I'm willing to give/do but not anytime soon. . . . Maybe I'm just cavalier or ignorant but I don't really think of SCUBA as an "Extreme" sport but I think doing a cave dive that long or really deep certainly is very extreme. Night diving is definitely getting more into the extreme end and I plan on doing that but as for the rest, for me, I'm just not sure yet if the risk is worth the reward.....

Good. That is the way you, and every competent diver, should be thinking. The risk / reward proposition is something that is actively addressed in technical dive training - you must understand, and be prepared to accept, the risk. Implied, but not really stated in quite this way, is that you should not expose yourself to considerable risk for trivial reward. And, while I agree with you to an extent, in that I don't personally consider diving an 'extreme' sport, some people do and opinions differ. For example, I don't consider night diving to be in any way extreme, but others do and I do not fault their views.

So what is the actual difference then? Is it considered a cavern because you are still in the light zone whereas cave is pitch black?

It is really a matter of remaining within a certain distance from the surface, and maintaining a ''sight line' to the opening / entrance / exit - the 'light zone' happens to be a reflection (OK, bad pun) of those elements - distance and sight.

Or is there a size requirementIf I came across a big open space the size of "one" movie theater would you consider that a cavern whereas the exit hallway would be a cave? To be honest, they both pretty much look the same to me and in either case you're still under an overhead. Where is the differentiation? What dictates the shift and how is either one really different from the other?

Although not the primary difference, there are some size stipulations related to the parameters within which a cavern diver should operate, vs a cave diver - for example, a cavern diver should not attempt to pass through a restriction that is too small for two divers to pass through together.

 

[kundalinichi]

There are a myriad of "Tec" courses available nowadays. Some DIR oriented, like UTD\GUE, some may not be, but the instructors may have DIR backgrounds. PADI\DSAT, TDI, the list goes on. I like the definition Steve Lewis\Doppler lays out in his book. "Technical diving = more time in water". You do usually see Tec divers in doubles with one or more stage(extend dive time) or deco (breathing to speed up decompression time) gases, but it doesn't change the plain and simple. I don't have much 'overhead' time at all, and I see the technicalities that people get into that try to define cavern\cave, but it doesn't change your gas supply needs to increase, along with a safe backup supply you turn around\step out of the the water with, which usually equates to longer dive times. I never had done a 60 minute dive until my technical class, for example.

You mentioned CCR being "tec" - I still can agree, as from what I have read, CCR includes much more task loading and having a higher level of awareness over your gear, but with "Type R" or recreational CCRs being released now, it seems as they are quite literally hands-free, such as the Poseidon MK6 discovery (which, so far, is designed to only extend your bottom time, in sport depth limits. PADI is just now releasing their CCR class line, where you start with Basic, move on to Advanced CCR (sport depth limits) and onto Tec CCR courses (including staged decompression into the dive plan).

For some, the extra gear seems ominous and ruins the 'fun factor' of single tank rec diving, it takes time to get used to the added weight and trim characteristics, but after getting comfortable in the water with them, putting on a single AL80 after diving doubles for a week straight makes you feel like superman\woman!

During any tec course, before any dives a good instructor will make sure you are 99.9% comfortable with your gear configuration and the dive plans, and I know for the DSAT (the technical diving leg of PADI) Tec deep course, some of the first training dives are just for that, with depth limits of 30-60ft depending on the dive #, to make you feel acquainted with your gear, and to even start instilling good buoyancy skills for ascending\stop protocols with (simulated) staged decompression stops. I didn't know what my instructor meant about decompression stops being like a state of meditation until the last dive of my course. But it really is - you slow your breathing, you don't move\kick as much (in calm seas, at least) and you just become a floating point in a huge ocean. By then, the dives are basically fun dives with one or two small skills you show your competency in, without even trying\being asked. It isnt for everyone, but when you feel ready, I really recommend to try it! (If you don't want to go full tech yet, theres also orientation courses you can take to get you comfortable with using doubles, still in recreational depth limits)

 

[Ozwald]

Yeah....there is no defining line between rec and tech.

I think that any dive that goes beyond a single tank , no deco in my books is technical diving. After all when you look at the very definition of the two words it more or less defines it for you doesn't it?

 

[PfcAJ]

Take a long, hard look at CCRs. While cool, they are significantly more complicated than OC diving and have a slew of additional risks associated with them. Imo, if your diving doesn't require it (and the vast majority of dives don't), then don't use them. Not worth the risk.

Technical vs recreational is mostly about the surface being an immediate option. If it is, then its probably rec. If not, then its technical and deserves the respect a more advanced dive commands. Redundancy, gas planning, gear configuration, *solid* teamwork, emergency procedures, and the ilk. Playing dress up with a technical costume (like doubles in 40ft of water) doesn't make it a technical dive.

Since a cavern is defined as being within the daylight zone (and some rather arbitrary depth/distance rule that varies from agency to agency, but generally a reasonable guideline), its in some middle ground between the two. Since the surface isn't really an immediate option (since you've got rocks over yer head!) I feel that it needs to be treated as a cave dive. I recall a situation at a popular "open water safe" cavern in north Florida where a diver lost her (I think it was a her) weights and was pinned to the ceiling. That went over like a pregnant pole-vaulter.

Bottom line is that situations where you can't get to the surface (while fun and enjoyable, I do it all the time) are serious business and demand respect. If you don't give it, the environment will take it.

 

[Rhone Man]

I think I'm more confused than when I first started in the topic of what some divers and agencies classify rec and tec diving.

Don't worry, you are not alone. There are no clear bright lines, and labels are guidelines rather than hard definitions.

Technical diving - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia