Confused about REC vs TEC for "certain" activities!

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Don't worry, you are not alone. There are no clear bright lines, and labels are guidelines rather than hard definitions.

So it seems.


Hmmm. Taking a mechanical device to exist in an environment that is normally hostile to human life. One that if not respected will kill you very quickly in some VERY nasty ways. I'd call that extreme.

When you put it that way it certainly sheds more light on the subject and brings a person down a peg or 2!




Well so far this has been informative and I can appreciate what each of you has said so far. Clearly it appears that there is no definitive answer or line between the two and although intriguing I will approach these subjects with caution and care. There is no question that these require much more skill level and appropriate training and I will seek the appropriate training when and if the time comes. I started this thread merely to touch on the subject not as a means to an end and although I don't feel persuaded or pushed I am happy to know a little bit more on the subject and will pursue it further when the appropriate time presents itself. Thanks! :cool2:
 
Any decent course will provide an outline describing what that course trains the diver to do. That is often coupled with recommended guidelines setting realistic limits on activities, based upon the training provided.

When it comes to qualification, the general rule is 'dive within the limits of your training and experience'. So... if you weren't specifically trained to do it... then the agencies don't recommend that you do it. Simple yah?

Examples:

PADI OW Diver - Recommended maximum depth of 18m/60ft for newly trained divers. No deco. No overhead environment. Seek further training to dive in conditions that are not similar to what you trained in.

PADI AOW Diver - Recommended maximum depth of 30m/100ft. No deco. No overhead environment. Seek further training to dive in conditions that are not similar to what you trained in.

PADI Deep Diver - Absolute maximum depth of 40m/130ft. No deco. No overhead environment. Seek further training to dive in conditions that are not similar to what you trained in.


PADI Tec40 Diver - Absolute maximum depth of 40m/130ft. No more than 10 minutes deco, calculated on back gas (but >50% O2 can be used). No overhead environment.

PADI Tec50 Diver - Absolute maximum depth of 50m. Unlimited accelerated deco, using up to 100% O2. No overhead environment.


PADI Wreck/Cavern Diver - Penetration within the 'light zone', no restrictions, no more than 40m130ft linear distance from the surface, no deco. This means, you shouldn't go into areas where you aren't illuminated by light from an exit point. You should not go through spaces that are too small for two divers to pass side-by-side whilst sharing air. You exercise dive planning and management to ensure that no-deco limits are maintained. You are never more than 40m travel to the surface.

PADI Technical/Advanced Wreck Diver - No restrictions on depth, deco or penetration. General recommendation to progress penetrations consistently with your experience and capability -based on individual risk assessments.

Cave Diver (various agencies) - Various restrictions on penetration, conditions, equipment and gasses used - all specifically tied to the course/training content and the standards that need to be achieved by the diver on those courses.

The same is true for other agencies.... they set specific limits appropriate to the specific content of their courses.

As for Rec versus Tec.... don't spend too much time trying to find a strict dividing line. At the best, all you will find is an agency specific definition. Some definitions are more popular than others (community consensus), but none are a 'rule'.

Generally 'no-deco' is used in connotation with recreational diving. The principle being that recreational divers should always retain the ability to immediately ascend to the surface if there is a problem. Where overheads are concerned... the use of 'linear' 40m/130ft penetration equates to restricting the same 'time from surface' as that of open water divers.

So, for me... recreational simply means: Can ascend directly to the surface if there is a problem + is never more than 40m/130ft from the surface.

Technical diving exceeds those limits... and because the surface is not immediately accessible (by depth, deco or overhead) then a much more robust system of skills, procedures and equipment considerations needs to be in place to protect the diver and ensure they can reasonably deal with any foreseeable problems without having to surface. Likewise, a much higher degree of core diving skill and robust mindset needs to be confirmed, so that the diver is able to control themselves and will not be subject to accidentally exceeding ascent rates, deco ceilings, max depths... or otherwise causing critical issues (i.e. silting) in overhead environments.
 
The essence of "recreational diving" is that the surface is always an option, and on shallow dives, may be the best one. As you go deeper, the surface gets further away, and going there may no longer be the first coping strategy you think of; as you venture into small overheads (like "sanitized" wrecks) the surface won't be an IMMEDIATE option. On an ice dive, it may be a somewhat distant option, as it can be in a cavern, too (it takes TIME to swim 200 feet). My husband likes to talk about "techreational" diving, which he uses to describe the gray area where, although you CAN surface, you probably ought to have other options for problem-solving. This is where the use of double tanks on "recreational" dives comes in (or H-valves), but it's also where the mindset changes. When the surface is far away, ensuring you really have an adequate gas supply WITH reserves becomes really important. Making sure you can communicate clearly with your buddy takes on new importance (read the current thread about the guys who both had massive leaks on the same dive!). Thinking through the what-ifs, and having a strategy in place for the likely ones, is vital preparation.

There is no bright line. But as dives get deeper or more complicated, the importance of adequate planning, good skills, and the ability and knowledge to problem-solve underwater just keeps increasing.
 
After doing a bit of research I think I'm more confused than when I first started in the topic of what some divers and agencies classify rec and tec diving. In particular I'm referring to penetrations and overhead confined areas.

As I'm strictly a PADI diver (so far) it looks like: Wreck, Cave/Cavern and Ice diving is rec diving but having seen various pictures of people doing these activities they appear to have multiple tanks like a tec diver does. I realize the risk of overhead areas as you can't directly ascent to the surface should an issue arise but is it just that there is more training and the use of accessories such as reels, lights, drysuits (if applicable) rather than strictly different gases?

It seems to me that unless you are going really deep you wouldn't need various tanks for different gases and staged decompression but rather as a backup system/redundancy.

Quite frankly the idea of tec diving in general (using different gases to go way deeper than 130ft and having to do many stops and for long periods of time) doesn't sound like my idea of a good time. I can see why some would want to do it to go see a really deep wreck site or explore a long or deep cave but at this point in time I really don't see myself ever getting into it and if wreck pen, cave and ice are considered tec then I guess those are a few activities I'll never do even though they are somewhat intriguing to me. I'd also really like to try out a CCR but only within rec limits so I can sit quietly and just observe fish and sharks without scaring them off with bubbles etc. I'm told that a CCR is tec diving so again, it looks like it's something I won't be able to do.

Hopefully someone can help alleviate my confusion and if I've been misinformed they can point that out. :cool2:

It's fairly straight forward

1. Any depth deeper than 130'
2. Any dive that exceeds the no decompression limits
3. Any dive that does not allow you direct access to the surface (cave, wreck penetration, ice)

That being said you could dive a technical setup during a Rec dive for the additional redundancy.

Hope this helps.


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I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?koh3oo
 
It's fairly straight forward

1. Any depth deeper than 130'
2. Any dive that exceeds the no decompression limits
3. Any dive that does not allow you direct access to the surface (cave, wreck penetration, ice)

That being said you could dive a technical setup during a Rec dive for the additional redundancy.

Hope this helps.


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I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?koh3oo


This is what I tell my friends and family...
 
Thanks to NWGratefulDiver:

"You are tech when you have an overhead, virtual or otherwise."


If you have a decompression obligation, you have a virtual overhead.

Any other time you have something over your head, you have an overhead.

Therefore, you need tec training.
 
I personally would recommend and even hope that every diver continues their education past the OW/AOW curriculum. As a father I simply want to learn all I can for preparation and preparedness factors for my young minnows. PADI/DSAT tec training provides much more of this then an OW course. The dive master route provides some basic physiology understanding and a place for it's discussion. The tec classes go more into the 'what to do' and how to solve more complex dive/mission requirements. I don't use all this information on every dive but I love that I have it.

As has been said, I wouldn't sweat the details of what is tec and what is rec. I'd guess that if you are wondering about a dive being tec or not then it might just be a tec dive:) Another term for recreational diving is 'No Stop' diving. Perhaps that is the most basic factor.
 
Thanks to NWGratefulDiver:

"You are tech when you have an overhead, virtual or otherwise."


If you have a decompression obligation, you have a virtual overhead.

Any other time you have something over your head, you have an overhead.

Therefore, you need tec training.
Great definition, but...

What about tri-mix? You can dive tri-mix with no deco obligation and no physical overhead, but does that count as recreational?

Also, the PADI recreational wreck specialty I took last year had the rule of distance to surface + distance of penetration not to exceed 130 feet. This means as far as PADI is concerned, penetrating 50 feet into a wreck (overhead environment) in 60 feet of water is totally fine.
 
There IS a Recreational trimix class.

Did you run a line into that wreck? :shocked2:
 
Great definition, but...

What about tri-mix? You can dive tri-mix with no deco obligation and no physical overhead, but does that count as recreational?

Also, the PADI recreational wreck specialty I took last year had the rule of distance to surface + distance of penetration not to exceed 130 feet. This means as far as PADI is concerned, penetrating 50 feet into a wreck (overhead environment) in 60 feet of water is totally fine.

Yes, trimix with no deco is recreational.

The limits you mention for the wreck penetration are similar to cavern standards.

I agree it's the best definition between recreational/technical , but it's certainly not a sharp dividing line.

20 foot reef. Recreational. (Can surface quickly,no problem)
5000 feet back in a cave. Technical. (Surface may be hours away. Fix your problem underwater or die. )
100 feet deep on air for 25 minutes. Hmmm....... While you could surface immediately (and probably get away with no ill affects from the missed deco) I would certainly prefer not to.
 
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