Combined octo/BC inflator?

[halocline]

I love reading these threads now. I'm a warm water rec newbie and for that type of diving I really like using the octo inflator.
(snip)
Some other thoughts. I usually dive with people I really care about, ie. my GF or daughter. In an OOA situation for them, I don't want to hand them the cheapest yellow reg the LDS threw in on the reg sale that I haven't even breathed on in the last 10 dives.

I'm not sure I understand your logic here, are you saying that the only alternatives are an expensive octo/inflator combo or a cheap safe second? How about a quality alternate second....still less expensive than the octo inflator and less failure prone. Alternate seconds are stored along with the reg set, where the octo/inflator stays on the BC where it's more likely to be abused between dives. It's very easy (and smart) to take a few breaths off of your alternate on each dive. Mine is a metal case SP "balanced adjustable" 2nd stage, identical in performance to my G250, very easy to spot because it's nice and shiny, practically indestructable, and it cost me about $40.

IMO, the big problems with octo/inflators are:
1. You need a longer corrugated hose for the BC than you would otherwise. This makes dumping air a little less convenient, and makes your rig less streamlined.
2. If you are forced to share your primary, you should also have that on a longer hose. Try sharing air and executing a controlled ascent with a panicked diver on a 28" hose while trying to breathe off a short inflator hose. It's possible but probably not fun. So the octo/inflator probably should be paired with a 40" hose (minimum) on the primary. Actually, I think this would be a good recreational set up; not for me but I could see how people could like it.
3. IMO, as a recreational diver, meaning often diving with unpredictable divers as opposed to "team trained" divers, you should be prepared for unpredictable behavior if an emergency comes up. This means an OOA diver may grab for your primary, may not. Being able to offer either is the best solution in this environment.
4. Octo/inflators are notorious for freeflow problems. Do a search on this forum and you'll find all sorts of threads about it.

 

[markfm]

"Notorious for freeflow problems"?

I put a decent number of dives on my Sherwood Shadow+, an inline unit (has a short LP hose piece that then connects to the normal BCD inflator input), never had a problem with it. Did my OW/drysuit in it, WT in the 30s, plus a bunch of diving in current, plus deep, plus..., without a freeflow. Same with my Instructor and others who use Shadow+.

 

[Vicente]

I agree with Jarrett. The best solution IMO is:

1) Identical 2nd stages
2) Breathe the long-hose as primary
3) Use the short hose as the secondary

Even when was a novice and had a basic Sherwood Magnum with standard-length hoses, I switched the hoses around to match this idea. It's not rocket science. You know the one if your mouth is functioning, give that to the OOA diver who is probably more desperate and possible panicky than you. Plug the short-hose in your mouth. Done.

Especially when diving with family/friends the minimal "training" required to clue them on how you believe OOA should be handled doesn't take long and can easily be done on the way to the dive site with an practice drill when you submerge.

 

[halocline]

I agree with Jarrett. The best solution IMO is:

1) Identical 2nd stages
2) Breathe the long-hose as primary
3) Use the short hose as the secondary

I'm pretty sure Jarrett is advocating the octo/inflator, not identical primary/alternate second stages.

 

[Jarrett]

I'm not sure I understand your logic here. I'm pretty sure Jarrett is advocating the octo/inflator, not identical primary/alternate second stages.

It's simple. If you want to complain about the safety of recreational setups, then dive a proven safe setup like the DIR configs. Redundant everything in a standardized config to go along with rigorous training for you and your diving buddy. Those who go to that extreme to put safety first have a firm footing from which to argue.

On the otherhand, it's just a weak argument to say, "your non-standardized recreational config is unsafe, while my slightly different non-standardized recreational config is uber safe." Either you are all the way into safe setups ala DIR, or you are just complaining about slight differences in recreational gear choices from your own.

 

[halocline]

"Notorious for freeflow problems"?

I put a decent number of dives on my Sherwood Shadow+, an inline unit (has a short LP hose piece that then connects to the normal BCD inflator input), never had a problem with it. Did my OW/drysuit in it, WT in the 30s, plus a bunch of diving in current, plus deep, plus..., without a freeflow. Same with my Instructor and others who use Shadow+.

That's great that you yourself and your instructor have not had an octo/inflator freeflow problem, but that doesn't mean I'm wrong about frequent problems with them. Do a search...I know it's hardly a scientific method, but I sure do hear about it enough; way more often than problems with a standard alternate 2nd stage.

 

[halocline]

It's simple. If you want to complain about the safety of recreational setups, then dive a proven safe setup like the DIR configs.

Friend, I was clearly questioning your logic on a specific point; not complaining about the safety of recreational set ups. You indicated that you preferred the octo/inflator for, among other reasons, "it's better than the cheap yellow reg the LDS threw in" or something to that effect. My point was that those are not the only two options, you can use a quality alternate second. Maybe you could re-read my post. I thought I was pretty clear but I guess not.

 

[james croft]

Divers who use octo/inflaters must be careful not to get dirt into the hose fitting or you can get grit, etc around the poppet area and it will leak air. I always shake out water from the fitting and place the cap over it. If you adhere to this you will avoid problems. I used a Zeagle octo+ and literally dragged it over acres of mud on hundreds of dives doing jackstay searches, etc. and have never had a problem.

 

[Jarrett]

Are we friends now? That's cool, I like to make new friends

I'm just pointing out that there are lots of myths about octo/inflators out there. Things like they freeflow all the time and get damaged because they can't be removed from BCDs and that they somehow make your config less streamlined

Also pointing out how silly it is to argue safety of recreational setups when much safer configurations than any recreational setup already exist.

 

[Vicente]

An important principle I recall from DIR was that dive teams agreed on equipment and procedures. An exploration team might have rebreathers, this does not mean support divers must have rebreathers just that within a team/buddy group they are matched. I contend that as long as a buddy pair knew what they were doing, and had their equipment and training down for OOA in this case, then okey-dokey.

I have been paired with random buddies on dive boats at times, so we would chat and sort out our differences of procedures before the dive. In my view as long as we both understood each other fine I don't have a problem with diving with for example a Vintage Diver complete with horse-collar and double-hose regulator. I argue that as we have not yet agreed on standards that stressing the importance of communication, planning and procedures will have to help us through the difficult spots.

I have dove with different configurations in various parts of the world. Maybe I had DIN and my buddy had Yoke, is this a safety issue? Perhaps I digress....