i ve been told the same that semi dry are not warmer than what you described.
Cold water & wet suit
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There are some materials that allegedly retain thermal protective properties when wet, I believe merino is one of them, however , I would have thought that whatever is gained in that respect would be more than lost by increased flushing within the suit. This is why open cell works so well, it forms seal against the entire body.
actually i ve been told not to where anything under a wetsuit in my case a 7 mm. Your body generate heat that will warm water trap in between your skin and the wetsuit. Adding another wetsuit or material you juste create more air space or water trap that would not be warmth by your body. sorry for my english not my first language.
Okay, there is a new term for wetsuits, "open cell." Open cell used to mean neoprene that was not "closed cell," in other words, had no buoyancy because it absorbed water as the cells were open to the water. I found out just last year that "open cell," is now a term used to describe what we used to call "skin one side," or "skin both sides." In other words, a suit made of closed cell foam neoprene without any backing, or with backing on only one side. We loved the "skin one siide" suits because that meant that the neoprene was glued together to be watertight. The stitching was only through the top, nylon or other material, layer, and the joint was completely glued together and therefore watertight.
It is thin watertight seals that makes a "wetsuit" really warm, as it prevents water from circulating through the suit through the stitched seams. Most suits today have material on both sides of the suit, and don't use "blind stitching" to stitch together the seams. That makes them leak water. In cold water (like freezing water) that makes for a very cold suit.
That terminology for the suit has changed, and "open cell" is no longer what I described above. Open cell suits are suits with the skin of the neoprene and the glued seams that are watertight.
So, with an open cell suit, which is the warmest? The warmest is skin-in, and the nylon/clothe on the outside, with no zippers. We used to call these "pull-over" suits with an attached hood on the jacket. "Farmer John" pants, which cover the chest area, were under the pull-over jacket.
Well, the next warmest is a jacket with only a front zipper, and none on the arms (or an outer zipper with an inner cuff that's waterproof). The "Farmer John" pants were worn under that, and if it's really cold water, a hooded vest under the Farmer John pants. If the water is not frigid, then a good hood with enough material to tuck under the jacket is good too.
The hood needs special attention, and should extend the face opening down to the eyebrows. Then the mask in worn with the strap over the hood, but the skirt under the face opening of the hood. Many hoods are not made this way, and have a large open area on the forehead with the forehead skin exposed to the water, the COLD water; this makes for instant headaches in extremely cold water. The chin cup needs to protect the majority of the chin, with only the lips showing for maximum protection from cold. The mouth can still hold the regulator, but then the cold water exposure to skin is minimized.
Boots should also have waterproof seams, and even ones with zippers now have this. But be sure that the seams are waterproof, as water coming through the boot zippers can make for really hold feet.
The same is true for diving gloves; make sure that they are waterproof (no water through zippers). We used to hand-make our dive gloves, which were actually 3-finger mitts. Separate the thumb and forefinger, then keep the other three fingers together and on a sheet of paper draw an outline that is about 1/2 inch from the skin. That is one side of the 3-finger mitt. Turn over the outline, and cut out another piece, and glue them together with neoprene cement. To do the gluing, first coat the surface with a coating of neoprene cement, and let it dry completely. Then, give it a second coat, and wait a few minutes until it is tacky, and join the edges together. This makes a waterproof seal, and these gloves can be used in extremely cold water. We used to use 1/8 inch neoprene for our gloves, but now they are in millimeters, so use 3 mm neoprene for maximum dexterity, or 5-7 mm for maximum protection from the cold water.
If you gear up for cold water diving with these suggestions, you can comfortably dive in almost freezing water for about an hour, up to say 60 feet (20 meters) depth. Beyond that, with wetsuit compression, you probably will want a dry suit.
SeaRat
It is thin watertight seals that makes a "wetsuit" really warm, as it prevents water from circulating through the suit through the stitched seams. Most suits today have material on both sides of the suit, and don't use "blind stitching" to stitch together the seams. That makes them leak water. In cold water (like freezing water) that makes for a very cold suit.
That terminology for the suit has changed, and "open cell" is no longer what I described above. Open cell suits are suits with the skin of the neoprene and the glued seams that are watertight.
So, with an open cell suit, which is the warmest? The warmest is skin-in, and the nylon/clothe on the outside, with no zippers. We used to call these "pull-over" suits with an attached hood on the jacket. "Farmer John" pants, which cover the chest area, were under the pull-over jacket.
Well, the next warmest is a jacket with only a front zipper, and none on the arms (or an outer zipper with an inner cuff that's waterproof). The "Farmer John" pants were worn under that, and if it's really cold water, a hooded vest under the Farmer John pants. If the water is not frigid, then a good hood with enough material to tuck under the jacket is good too.
The hood needs special attention, and should extend the face opening down to the eyebrows. Then the mask in worn with the strap over the hood, but the skirt under the face opening of the hood. Many hoods are not made this way, and have a large open area on the forehead with the forehead skin exposed to the water, the COLD water; this makes for instant headaches in extremely cold water. The chin cup needs to protect the majority of the chin, with only the lips showing for maximum protection from cold. The mouth can still hold the regulator, but then the cold water exposure to skin is minimized.
Boots should also have waterproof seams, and even ones with zippers now have this. But be sure that the seams are waterproof, as water coming through the boot zippers can make for really hold feet.
The same is true for diving gloves; make sure that they are waterproof (no water through zippers). We used to hand-make our dive gloves, which were actually 3-finger mitts. Separate the thumb and forefinger, then keep the other three fingers together and on a sheet of paper draw an outline that is about 1/2 inch from the skin. That is one side of the 3-finger mitt. Turn over the outline, and cut out another piece, and glue them together with neoprene cement. To do the gluing, first coat the surface with a coating of neoprene cement, and let it dry completely. Then, give it a second coat, and wait a few minutes until it is tacky, and join the edges together. This makes a waterproof seal, and these gloves can be used in extremely cold water. We used to use 1/8 inch neoprene for our gloves, but now they are in millimeters, so use 3 mm neoprene for maximum dexterity, or 5-7 mm for maximum protection from the cold water.
If you gear up for cold water diving with these suggestions, you can comfortably dive in almost freezing water for about an hour, up to say 60 feet (20 meters) depth. Beyond that, with wetsuit compression, you probably will want a dry suit.
SeaRat
i never thought it would make much difference either to be honest. but having a layer gave me two things
first, it actually made it much more comfortable. my feet got blisters at times from finning. the extra socks just made the boots fit that much better (for me anyway) and eliminated that problem. they were way more comfy to wear. i was surprised. the boots were also much easier to put on and take off which is a bonus.
second, as with any wet suit or boots/gloves, the most important thing is to prevent water from moving in and out of the suit/boots/gloves. unlike the old wives tale that "the layer of water inside the suit keeps you warm" which is incorrect. so adding a layer inside can def help with that.
i did love my "smart wool" merino socks in my drysuit boots as well. one of the best buys i ever made. but thats a different story.
100% agree "IF" someone is using one those suits described that you need to lube up your body to get into it. those sound like they are completely stuck to your skin and would not allow any water flushing in or out.
but most typical wet suits i see do not fit like that. no one i know would ever use a suit that you have to lube up to get into it. so an added layer can help take up that small space in the suit to prevent water flushing in and out. depending on the fabric chosen, it can also make donning and doffing the suit a heck of a lot easier.
Ok, just personal experience.
I have a semi dry Apeks 7/8mm, and I dive during winter in a quarry in France, temp is around min 7 and max 9 degrees celcius.
The first dive of the day is very nice, 40 minutes at 7 degrees is bearable.
The second dive is complicated, the suit is wet, the boots are wet, the gloves are wet …
It’s kind of a challenge to go two dives in a row, bit doable with motivation
I have a semi dry Apeks 7/8mm, and I dive during winter in a quarry in France, temp is around min 7 and max 9 degrees celcius.
The first dive of the day is very nice, 40 minutes at 7 degrees is bearable.
The second dive is complicated, the suit is wet, the boots are wet, the gloves are wet …
It’s kind of a challenge to go two dives in a row, bit doable with motivation
If you lube up the suit rather than your body before donning, it becomes a less sensual exercise
I wouldn't say they are "completely stuck to your skin", but there is a good seal. Flushing is almost non-existent. Have to say I'm a convert.
Lubing up is a hassle, but it's what every serious spearfisherman/freediver does. These suits are very common in my part of the world. Dry suits are still a rarity, even for SCUBA divers, but New Zealand is 50 years behind the rest of the world!
We used to use corn starch to get into our skin inside suits (open cell inside).If you lube up the suit rather than your body before donning, it becomes a less sensual exercise
I wouldn't say they are "completely stuck to your skin", but there is a good seal. Flushing is almost non-existent. Have to say I'm a convert.
Lubing up is a hassle, but it's what every serious spearfisherman/freediver does. These suits are very common in my part of the world. Dry suits are still a rarity, even for SCUBA divers, but New Zealand is 50 years behind the rest of the world!
SeaRat
well i guess they are wrong than. Could you explain how the " old wives tales is incorrect ?
wetsuit
A wetsuit is a special suit worn by people who want to spend a lot of time in the water
How does a wetsuit keep you warm? - Custom Wetsuits Blog
Maybe you are wondering how to keep warm underwater? The answer to your question is neoprene. But how does this wetsuit keep you warm!
www.custom-wetsuits.com
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