Coco View vs Independent shop: costs, etc.

[dwachter00]

Hello all. My first post on Scuba Board!
Heading to Roatan in about a month, for 5-7 days of diving with my girlfriend G, who will be getting her open water certification. I'm already certified and want to dive while she does her course – if possible, we’d both like to dive with the same company.
I've been reviewing posts and operator web sites for a number of hours, and have learned a lot about some of the options on Roatan, but still haven't made a decision which would be best for us.
CoCo View seems like our ideal/ pie-in-the-sky, given our primary focus on excellent diving and professional staff (G is a bit nervous about learning to dive, and we want to avoid a sketchy experience for the sake of our diving future). Also the fact that night life/ beach activities are not a priority (West End may be worth a visit, but we wouldn't be out partying most nights anyway; FI's campy atmosphere looks like it's not our style). However, cost is also a concern.
So, how much would total bottom-line costs differ between CoCo View resort and an independent dive shop/ lodging arrangement (with Native Sons, Reef Divers, Roatan Divers, Coconut Tree, etc)? We'd want a decent room - not necessarily luxury, but clean and comfortable, not terribly kitsch. Also, if a more expensive accommodation would allow us to avoid pesky biting flies (by being over the water, better-screened, or whatever), that would make a difference. We’d eat decent meals (mid-range, mostly sea food), and would NOT be interested in doing much of our own cooking. So we would not be scrimping to try to maximize savings if we were to do the independent thing.
Another thing I’ve not been able to sort out well based on the posts I’ve read: does it really matter which beach is right outside your door? Seems to me like it DOES, particularly since we’d be interested in doing extra shore diving or kicking out with snorkeling gear. Coco View/ FI seem to have the best location for that, with shallow critter habitat, walls close-in, and relative shelter in case of rough seas. Am I wrong?
If we were to stay in/near West End, what would the options be for snorkeling/shore diving, how would they compare with what we’d have at our doorstep at CCV (quality/ variety…), and could we access them very easily, or would we be more reliant on boat trips to get our in-the-water experience? By the way, we would want to do at least 3-4 dives a day, and at least a couple of night dives during the time we’re there.
I realize that it may be hard to come up with accurate estimates for the cost difference, but it would be enough to know if the all-inclusive difference over the 5-7 days would be, f’rinstance, about $250 each (Coco View for sure!), around $500 each (tough decision), or more than $500 each (in which case we’d probably go independent).
I also realize that there are far too many questions in this one post, but if any of you ultra-helpful folks can answer any one of them, we’d appreciate it.
Oh, and (sorry) one more question: Is it realistic to expect to be able to simply arrive on the island late in the day on August 4th and start pounding the pavement (or sand) looking for dive shops and hotel rooms which suit us best? Or would we have to make arrangements ahead of time, even if we choose the independent pathway? We’d like to be in the classroom (G)/ under water (me) on the 5th.

Thanks!
- Dave (ex Marine Biology diver, now sometimes vacation diver)

 

[Bay Island Diver]

ALOT depends on time of year. You are planning on visiting during August, the first three weeks of August are high season, the last week tends to be much quieter. If you arrive on August the 4th, you will probably find a room and a dive op that can accomodate you, but the more popular operations (the ones you have listed, one of which - Roatan Divers has closed down.) are likely to be fully booked.

You will pay $25/dive for boat dives if you dive with a West End op. In West Bay the price will likely be the same, but equipment rental will be added at $5/dive if you need to use rental gear.

The Open Water course will be $250 in West End, you will have to buy a book for $30 and the marine park donation of $10 giving a total course cost of $290. It will be slightly more in West Bay, probably closer to $350 including everything.

Hotel rooms range from about $50 to over $100. My favourites being Posada Arco Iris, Posada Las Orquídeas and Cocolobo.

There is excellent snorkelling right of West End and West Bay, Just as good as FI and CCV, however the dive ops are not set up for beach diving in the same way that CCV and FI are. Since the sea tends to be much calmer on the North side during the summer, there is little need for shore diving inside the lagoon.

So a West End vacation staying in Posada Arco Iris (with AC) and diving (15 Dives or an OW course and some fun dives) with any West End op will likely cost around $600pp Add $200-300pp for quite reasonable dining in West End's selection of restaurants and you can start to compare with the deals on offer at the AIs.

If four boat dives a day and 2-3 night dives a week is not enough, the your only choice is Cocoview or FI, maybe BIBR as well.

The costs of CCV and FI are hard to guage since they offer many different deals through many different agents there are certainly some real bargains out there at certain times of year.

I think the whole West End as a Party town has been slightly over exaggerated, it has a great selection of Restaurants, but people coming looking for lively and loud bars will be greatly disappointed. Sundowners closes between 9 and 10 every night! Having said that West End is the livliest town on the Island, but if you want to party, go to Utila is my advice!

HTH

Will

 

[dwachter00]

Thanks, Will! That info helps. So it seems that we may well end up close enough in price range to justify splurging on CCV...(?).
Looks like $1049 plus taxes and tips will get us diving, accommodations over the water, and food for 7 days at CCV. Does your estimate for a do-it-yourself trip include taxes and tips?
So far, no response from CCV to the email I sent them 2 days ago. You mentioned that prices differ according to booking agent - do you know of anyone who's offering a better deal than one can get by contacting the resort directly? Or maybe someone who can help us get in if the resort is "full"? (Don't know if resort booking works like airline travel).
I read in this forum that CCV will arrange outside accommodations if theirs are full - is that true, and if so, is availability still limited by spots on boats/ in courses?
By the way, I forgot to ask: how often are OW courses offered? I was off by a day, and it turns out we'll probably be arriving on 8/3, G will want to start her course on 8/4, which is Monday. Do courses tend to start on certain days, at resorts or through independent operators?
Thanks again.
- D

 

[dwachter00]

Oh, and I forgot to ask:
We'll need to rent gear. I couldn't tell from CCV's web site whether or not gear rental is included, & if not, how much that will likely add to our cost (couldn't find that on their web site, and still haven't heard back from them). $5 per dive at other resorts sounds great, but I'd want to be sure that the gear will be good. Not-so-great experiences with rental gear in Belize and Utila in the past, with free-flowing regulator, etc. Unfortunately, we'll be lugging backpacks through Guatemala en route to the Islands, so will not be able to bring more than our own masks and snorkels.
- D

 

[Bay Island Diver]

You are asking many very good questions. Make sure you know what extras will be charged over and above the AI prices quoted. Many so called all inclusive dive resorts charge extra for instruction, gear rental etc etc once they have you trapped an comitted to their resort fot the week. Often the 'A la Carte' option of diving gives you greater flexibility (if you don't like your hotel, food, dive op, or feel you are being nickeled and dimed you can just change!) basically 'a la carte' translates as everything you want, just how you want it.

I will let the knowledgeable CCV crowd answer most of your questions regarding gear rental and what the price includes regarding open water training, books, certification fees, who you should book through etc etc. I know a lot about the western part of the island, but as far as CCV and FI are concerned there are much more knowledgeable posters here than me. I am never one to post opinions about things i don't have good up to date factual information on, that would be a very bad habit to develop, and helps no-one.

DON'T assume that the more you pay for gear rental the better it will be. I really only know about the West End / West Bay dive ops, of the ones you mention in your initial post for sure Reef Gliders and Coconut Tree have new top quality rental gear all the time. They have an aggressive replacement policy which means you are usually diving in nearly new gear. By buying large quantities of equipment often they get great prices which makes it affordable. The vast majority of West End visitors do not bring their own gear, so quality gear is a real point of competition between the dive centers, in the AIs this tends not to be the case.

As for my estimate including taxes and tips. Yeah it basically does, it is only an estimate though. You could DEFINITELY do it for less, you could also go for a much glitzier option as well.

 

[Isaac-1]

I may not be the best person to answer current questions about Coco View, I have been there twice before, however the last time was 19 years ago. My fiancee and I will be going back in Sept, and we will be doing her open water certification dives there (she has already completed her classrooom and confined water sessions locally). It really is a turn key vacation, there is little need for money during the time there, it is very possible to step foot onto the resort grounds and never set foot anywhere else on the island until you leave at the end of the week. It seems you are likely in a similar situation, assuming Coco View has room availability (check with ccv@roatan.com they have been the U.S. booking agent for Coco View for 20+ years, from back in the days when there were no phones on the island) you will need to arrange for the class directly with their semi indenpendant dive center dockside@docksidedivecenter.com (they offer 50% discount on weekly rental gear for referal students, probably also for people doing the open water class their, although I am not sure why you would not want to do the classroom/pool stuff at home before you go)

Ike

 

[Doc]

for 5-7 days of diving with my girlfriend G, who will be getting her open water certification. I'm already certified and want to dive while she does her course – if possible, we’d both like to dive with the same company.

That sounds like a good thing, but please understand that you would be nowhere near her during that process. It wouldn't be a good idea socially nor would it be an effective teaching environment for the instructor. Don't even imagine that you could enjoy boat rides together... her instruction continues long before, during and after any boat ride! Look forward to doing (possibly) her final open water certification dive with her... maybe.

CoCo View seems like our ideal/ pie-in-the-sky, given our primary focus on excellent diving and professional staff (G is a bit nervous about learning to dive, and we want to avoid a sketchy experience for the sake of our diving future).

Roatan has any number of excellent Instructors- you've already heard from Will . CCV is lucky to have the on-site independent shop and Instructor of Patty Grier, who has been a PADI professional for 25+ years. Her abilities are my personal model for instructing women. There can be a certain way, yes? The ocean just off of the Front Yard of the resort is also referred to as "the Pool". Pretty simple place for instruction, literally at the steps of your room.

Also the fact that night life/ beach activities are not a priority

That would be an understatement at CCV. Occasionally, Club Groups show up and keep the bar hopping until the late hour of 10:30~ that's when the bar tender goes home and leaves out a few cold ones on ice for the party to rock on for another 12~15 minutes. Then, it gets pretty quiet. In my last half dozen rips there I have been the last dog to die at about 9:30, just after my night dive I'll go get a Coke. Everybody else is snoring.

NOT be interested in doing much of our own cooking. So we would not be scrimping to try to maximize savings if we were to do the independent thing.

Shopping, cooking and all the stuff that goes along with it burns up vacation time.

Another thing I’ve not been able to sort out well based on the posts I’ve read: does it really matter which beach is right outside your door? Seems to me like it DOES, particularly since we’d be interested in doing extra shore diving or kicking out with snorkeling gear. Coco View/ FI seem to have the best location for that, with shallow critter habitat, walls close-in, and relative shelter in case of rough seas. Am I wrong?

No, you are right. CCV comes into its own when people utilize it's greatest gift- the serendipity of it's location. Stumble out you Cabana and flop in the water. You're within the reef and tidal basin, within three minutes you can be in 35fsw and looking at the intact 140' tanker, The Prince Albert Wreck. In that it's anchor chain leads you from the shore and back, it is a simple to follow garden path that you and your new diver will likely make your happiest dives- you can't get lost.

If we were to stay in/near West End, what would the options be for snorkeling/shore diving, how would they compare with what we’d have at our doorstep at CCV (quality/ variety&#8230, and could we access them very easily, or would we be more reliant on boat trips to get our in-the-water experience?

A few places tout shore dives on Roatan, there is nothing that compares to this gem. Some places say they have shore dives, and they are really stretching the definition. There is a resort way East on the South side in Oak Ridge that does have a nice, close-in reef- but that's about all they have (for right now).

By the way, we would want to do at least 3-4 dives a day, and at least a couple of night dives during the time we’re there.

In terms of the economics of money, an AI is more than likely your best choice. We've banged through the math here more than a few times. Anything 3 a day or more, and AI's win.

The other thing to consider is how the resorts (or any op) does their dive schedule. CCV does two boats per day x 2 tanks on each. This is an efficient method, versus loading, diving and returning, unloading and then going back out. Most ops do three boats per day and one tank each. It's an issue of spare tanks, storage space on the boats, and their audience. Although CCV has room for a theoretical max of 107 divers, they only have rooms for 75. Most boats go out with 14~17 out of the 27 spaces being occupied. People aren't skipping diving- they're just shore diving instead.

If you want to night dive, again, you really can't beat CCV. They charge for a Wednesday boat dive, but it's a waste of money. Most anyone who has been there more than once will do the shore dive 10:1 over that night boat ride. If you are uneasy about the night dive, you can hire a DM for not much, or take the course at the dive shop. Or- do what 99% of the guests do- they hook up with some of their "new friends" and ask them to show them the "Front Yard" at night after dinner!

Don't expect too much from the CCV website, they are not high level marketers- they don't have to be. But then again, all your questions are answered there. In that the Dockside Dive Center is wholly independent, you have to click on their link thingie to see the answers to rental and instruction... something that would fall under resort ownership on almost every other website.

The best info on CCV is where the "CoCoNuts" have a message board. Take a look, do a search, post a question on CoCo Chat. Doesn't cost a dime!

 

[dwachter00]

Thanks some more! Wealth of info!
Doc, I know I won't be able to hang around G while she takes the course. Guess I'll just have to go off and "mope" at some of those gosh-darned dive sites
Although the thought of having nice snorkeling out the door appeals, I'm beginning to wonder if we'd take advantage of that if we're doing 4 dives a day every day... Don't want to miss the little critters, though!
I've sent off a couple of emails to find out about gear rental packages at CCV, and to compare packages/prices available through some independent operators.
Drum roll... :11::monkeydan

 

[sand diver]

Hi Dave

There is some great info, and very accurate, in this thread!

Just a thought- If you are trying to maximize time with your G while on holiday why not get her to complete the academic and confined water part of the PADI Open Water before arriving as a referal. This would mean she will only have to complete a short confined session to check the skills and the 4 open water dives. I also recommend this when one person in a relationship is learning while the other is certified. You will dive more often together when on holiday! Contact your local PADI centre or look online at the PADI website and check out e-learning at least to complete academics!

Have a fantastic time!

 

[dwachter00]

I wish we'd thought about having her do the confined-water part of the course sooner. However, the whole trip was conceived last-minute, when plans to go to S. Africa fell through - far too late to fit a dive class into her recently hectic schedule. Also far too late for us to have looked into the trip adequately ahead of time, as you can see.
We're leaving for Guatemala in less than 2 days, so the best we can do is shave off a little bit of palapa time by doing the book part online - Coconut Tree encourages this, and links you to PADI on their web site to get you started. If I ever hear back from CoCo View, I'll ask them what they can offer to get things rolling...