Close call with a newbie

[Eric Sedletzky]

Wow, I can't believe this thread got revived!

The latest on the guy I dove with.
I don't think he's been in the water on scuba since that dive.
I think he might have done some freediving for abs since but I'm not sure.
I ran into him once and he was friendly enough, I was friendly back. There was no talk of diving, just small talk. He got a harley and had it all custom painted up, so that's his new thing.

If he rides anything like he dives it's only a matter of time before he lays it down.

 

[porgyhunter]

What a flippin nightmare!! Boy you got patience! This guy is just educated enough in scuba to kill himself

 

[jrhudson]

It's a shame there are people like this out there. As a new diver I look forward to getting the chance to dive with more experienced divers. Then again I actually look forward to learning new things from people and experiences. I hope this doesn't keep people from accepting new divers into their groups and teaching the ones who are actually interested in bettering their dive skills

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

It's a shame there are people like this out there. As a new diver I look forward to getting the chance to dive with more experienced divers. Then again I actually look forward to learning new things from people and experiences. I hope this doesn't keep people from accepting new divers into their groups and teaching the ones who are actually interested in bettering their dive skills

This incident didn't keep me from diving with newer divers. I thought it would but I soon realized this guy was 1 in 10,000 and it would be unfair to think all new divers are that way.
All I want to see is that they at least remember the skills taught in open water and are open to suggestions and don't argue, that's it. We'll deal with less than perfect skills, not a problem. Everybody has to start somewhere, just learn as you go, don't lie or mislead people about your skill level, and don't be an idiot.
Pretty simple.

 

[Bonairetrip]

I was involved in a somewhat similar situation. Fortunately, not that directly involved...

Part 1:
I was diving locally (Puget Sound) when a neighbor got certified. He and I started diving together. Steve was a very good diver -- good skills, great judgment, etc. One day, he asked if a friend of his from his dive class could join us. I agreed. I will call the friend X.

We met at Edmonds Underwater Park on an incoming tide. I was excited to get my second dive in with my new shell dry suit. We geared up and Steve and assembled our gear with practiced ease. X seemed to struggle a bit with orienting the tank and reg but got it figured out. It seemed fine and we had a nice conversation as we planned out the dive.

The plan was simple: we would snorkel out to a piling in the water. We would descend and swim along the dry dock. Poke around there and look for ling code and perhaps a wolfie. Then head parallel to shore for a bit. Then loop back in before the current picked up. I have long since forgotten what our turnaround times and pressures were. One good thing: the ferry dock was under construction (so no ferry traffic) but you still had to avoid that area.

We made it partway to the pier and I aborted the dive. I had a minor stream running down my neck and into my suit. I headed back in and Steve and X continued the dive.

I went to my car and took off most of my gear. It was when I got back to shore that I realized my problem: I had sort of twisted my latex neck seal and a bit of the undergarment was in the way (idiot move!). I took off most of my gear and put it away for the trip home. But I decided to snorkel the area along the rock jetty and wait for them to complete their dive.

Meanwhile, Steve and X had continued their dive "adventure."

 

[Bonairetrip]

Part 2
Steve and X reached the piling. X was out of breath and wanted to rest. Steve agreed. X did not seem to be recovering and Steve suggested they abort the dive and call it a day. X insisted that he was fine and ready to submerge. Viz was fairly limited (probably closer to 5 ft than 10 ft). They submerged with Steve in front and X trailing. They were swimming along the dry-dock and a slow pace.

Steve looks back and X is gone. He does a circle search. No contact. He surfaces. He finds X. X is OK and wants to go down again. He directs X to swim in front of him as they tour the dry dock. A few minutes later, Steve is looking at the dry-dock and looks forward and X is gone. Again. He does a quick circle search and then surfaces. Now the surface current is ripping. And they are being pushed towards the ferry pier. X says he is tired and can't swim against the current.

Steve suggests they descend and swim back underwater as both have plenty of air. By now, they are almost at the ferry pier. They descend and X won't kick. Steve starts towing him underwater. (Steve spots a brand new welding helmet. And a seasoft weight belt. Steve starts to put on the weight belt and quickly realizes that it is insane to grab that belt and tow x). Steve is making some progress with the tow when X bolts for the surface.

Steve puts in his snorkel and tries to tow X back on the surface. Steve establishes that X is OK and directs him to breath from his reg. X is now frozen and won't kick at all.

About this time, a guy comes out in a boat and yells at them and tells them to get away from the ferry pier. Steve is tired and winded and, for some reason, does not indicate that he is towing a distressed diver. And the boat leaves right away.

Steve is making minimal but some progress but tiring.

At some point I observe Steve appearing to tow another diver. I sprint swim out. We establish X is OK but totally frozen. He will not respond to commands. We rest for a few moments and then I take over the tow. By now, the current is pretty brisk and we are making progress, albeit slowly.

When we are in belly deep water, we stand. We tell X to stand. He will not. He is still frozen. We tow him in until literally his ass is dragging on the gravel.

 

[Bonairetrip]

Part 3
After the dive, X acted sort of embarrassed. I then left and never talked to him. I know he asked to go diving again with us (I declined).

We did observe that his wetsuit was super tight. That was what caused the shortness of breath -- as soon as he stopped holding is breath, the wetsuit squeezed the air out. (He was using an old wetsuit he had -- although he had already bought his first piece of gear. Yes, a spear gun. Rather than an exposure suit that fit well!)

Steve and I had a good conversation about the incident and what we (he and I) should have done differently. We came up with a long list...

Perhaps the best lessons (and there were many):

First, incidents tend to evolve and it is easy to get caught up solving issues one by one and not recognizing the big picture: there is a crisis. There were lots of alarm bells along the way to what was really a true rescue. The dive should have been called at the pilings. Or when X first surfaced. Steve should have signaled for help. Early and often. He should have signaled the boat. I should have alerted folks on shore before swimming out from the jetty.

Second, people at risk of drowning do not look like they do on TV (or the way I was taught in lifeguard class). A blank stare and being non-responsive is one way it can look.

Third, Steve can swim hard!

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

Part 3
After the dive, X acted sort of embarrassed. I then left and never talked to him. I know he asked to go diving again with us (I declined).

We did observe that his wetsuit was super tight. That was what caused the shortness of breath -- as soon as he stopped holding is breath, the wetsuit squeezed the air out. (He was using an old wetsuit he had -- although he had already bought his first piece of gear. Yes, a spear gun. Rather than an exposure suit that fit well!)

Steve and I had a good conversation about the incident and what we (he and I) should have done differently. We came up with a long list...

Perhaps the best lessons (and there were many):

First, incidents tend to evolve and it is easy to get caught up solving issues one by one and not recognizing the big picture: there is a crisis. There were lots of alarm bells along the way to what was really a true rescue. The dive should have been called at the pilings. Or when X first surfaced. Steve should have signaled for help. Early and often. He should have signaled the boat. I should have alerted folks on shore before swimming out from the jetty.

Second, people at risk of drowning do not look like they do on TV (or the way I was taught in lifeguard class). A blank stare and being non-responsive is one way it can look.

Third, Steve can swim hard!

Good story.
What would have elevated your incidient to the level of mine would have been if X would have run his mouth the whole time before the dive how good he was, and then after you guys rescued him have him tell you it's all your fault for what happened.

 

[Bonairetrip]

Good story.
What would have elevated your incidient to the level of mine would have been if X would have run his mouth the whole time before the dive how good he was, and then after you guys rescued him have him tell you it's all your fault for what happened.

I agree that yours is so much worse than mine! For the reasons above plus he sounded like a flailer with a speargun. Plus he misled about his dive history. Plus the gear issue. (Plus he must have been way overweighted if nearer to the end of the dive his BP/W could start to float away from an unbuckled waist belt).

The main reason I posted my story on this thread is I saw some important simalarities. First both you and Steve almost certainly saved the bacon of the other divers. Second, in both cases there were little issues along the way that could have been given more attention. Third, the management of both incidents (including my response!) was too focused on responding to the immediate issues and not focused enough (for sure in my case but I also think in yours) on the broader incident unfolding.

The focus on immediate issues works well with most folks I dive with (who are very, very, solid divers). They have an issue and we deal with it. I have an issue and we deal with it.

Thank you for your posts -- they really made me think. It really has solidified my thinking about how to approach a dive with a newer (to me) diver. In a good way...

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

I agree that yours is so much worse than mine! For the reasons above plus he sounded like a flailer with a speargun. Plus he misled about his dive history. Plus the gear issue. (Plus he must have been way overweighted if nearer to the end of the dive his BP/W could start to float away from an unbuckled waist belt).

The main reason I posted my story on this thread is I saw some important simalarities. First both you and Steve almost certainly saved the bacon of the other divers. Second, in both cases there were little issues along the way that could have been given more attention. Third, the management of both incidents (including my response!) was too focused on responding to the immediate issues and not focused enough (for sure in my case but I also think in yours) on the broader incident unfolding.

The focus on immediate issues works well with most folks I dive with (who are very, very, solid divers). They have an issue and we deal with it. I have an issue and we deal with it.

Thank you for your posts -- they really made me think. It really has solidified my thinking about how to approach a dive with a newer (to me) diver. In a good way...

In the end when I look back at that whole fiasco, the ultimate responsibility and fault was mine.
There should have been many prior steps taken on my part to avoid the dive getting that bad.

First off, no spearguns. If he complained and threw a fit I should have not gone diving with him.
Second, As soon as the first complaining started I should have said we needed to go in, dive's over.
Part of the problem was I was s0ort of captive being that we were way up on a remote part of the coast and we took his truck.
One thing I will ALWAYS do from now on is take my own vehicle to the dive site.

I should have been much more vigilant from the start and I could have avoided the whole thing.
The other side of that theory is then it would have been a possibility that I would have dove with him again not knowing how bad a dive could actually get.

The way it happened is probably the best thing. He got the crap scared out of him and will probably never dive again (best thing for the sport), and I learned a mountain of lessons in one dive, so it worked out just fine.