Close Call in Bali - know your DM and Dive Operator very well
- Thread starter veron
- Start date
Please register or login
Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.
Benefits of registering include
- Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
- A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
- You can make this box go away
thanks for all those who gave your feedback. Maybe it's worthwhile i explain why my buddy was showing his guage.
Before we hit the water, DM's briefing was for Bar. We asked the DM if we can just give the PSI reading in our guage. She instead asked us to convert from PSI to Bar coz she does not know PSI.
While underwater, my buddy hit 100bar or less (1500psi and below). When the DM asked my buddy what his air was, he instead showed the DM his guage because he did not want to convert 1000PSI to bar underwater. He knows that 1000 PSI was enough to get him to safety stop and up the boat. Since DM did not know the conversion she then initiated the sharing of air. My buddy was surprised and took it anyway. The rest of us (there were 4 of us plus 1 DM) saw that they were sharing air and was ready to surface. I was surprised when instead of doing the safety stop goes for another 5 minutes. That's when we started to signal the DM to take the safety stop and do the ascent.
Bubbletrouble, you are absolutely correct to say - we know better than the DM.
Bubble trouble, on note number 2, we were NOT uncomfortable with the water; we were closed to finishing the dive; we were on our safety stop when the downwelling came. we had 1 minute or less left before completely ascending. We had so much air left right before the downwelling came. Naturally we had to struggle to get up and struggle to hang on to something to prevent us from being pulled down any further. Because we had to struggle, we started to consume more air.
We got pushed all the way down to 65ft from 5ft. To stop us from getting pushed further, we had to grab on to something. I knew there was a wall that heads up to the shore, so we just pulled ourselves up. The other 2 just drifted far from us and managed to get out of the downwelling.
The briefing for this dive was as simple as ''the current is strong do you want to go ahead?" is this a substantial briefing? Leejnd, if DM was optional we should have not taken their DM - probably the boatman would have suffice. Also, if we were told the place was common for downwelling we would have not gone and do the dive.
Quero, what you shared about cultural expectation is quite insightful. It gives me a better perspective of divers all over the world. One of our assessment was that maybe the DM's background is different from how DM's are back home or to the other places we've been to. We not only look at our DM's to guide us but also take the 'leadership role' in the dive. I hope this statement doesn't get confused with over dependence on the DM, but we take action from DM's signal - go down, go up, safety stop, go on whatever direction.
Again, your insights are noted. thanks
Before we hit the water, DM's briefing was for Bar. We asked the DM if we can just give the PSI reading in our guage. She instead asked us to convert from PSI to Bar coz she does not know PSI.
While underwater, my buddy hit 100bar or less (1500psi and below). When the DM asked my buddy what his air was, he instead showed the DM his guage because he did not want to convert 1000PSI to bar underwater. He knows that 1000 PSI was enough to get him to safety stop and up the boat. Since DM did not know the conversion she then initiated the sharing of air. My buddy was surprised and took it anyway. The rest of us (there were 4 of us plus 1 DM) saw that they were sharing air and was ready to surface. I was surprised when instead of doing the safety stop goes for another 5 minutes. That's when we started to signal the DM to take the safety stop and do the ascent.
Bubbletrouble, you are absolutely correct to say - we know better than the DM.
Bubble trouble, on note number 2, we were NOT uncomfortable with the water; we were closed to finishing the dive; we were on our safety stop when the downwelling came. we had 1 minute or less left before completely ascending. We had so much air left right before the downwelling came. Naturally we had to struggle to get up and struggle to hang on to something to prevent us from being pulled down any further. Because we had to struggle, we started to consume more air.
We got pushed all the way down to 65ft from 5ft. To stop us from getting pushed further, we had to grab on to something. I knew there was a wall that heads up to the shore, so we just pulled ourselves up. The other 2 just drifted far from us and managed to get out of the downwelling.
The briefing for this dive was as simple as ''the current is strong do you want to go ahead?" is this a substantial briefing? Leejnd, if DM was optional we should have not taken their DM - probably the boatman would have suffice. Also, if we were told the place was common for downwelling we would have not gone and do the dive.
Quero, what you shared about cultural expectation is quite insightful. It gives me a better perspective of divers all over the world. One of our assessment was that maybe the DM's background is different from how DM's are back home or to the other places we've been to. We not only look at our DM's to guide us but also take the 'leadership role' in the dive. I hope this statement doesn't get confused with over dependence on the DM, but we take action from DM's signal - go down, go up, safety stop, go on whatever direction.
Again, your insights are noted. thanks
tonka97
Contributor
- Messages
- 795
- Reaction score
- 10
- # of dives
- I'm a Fish!
One of the better, more insightful threads on the Board.
Thanks!
Thanks!
- Messages
- 2,739
- Reaction score
- 769
- # of dives
- 500 - 999
He would grab my October and forcibly pull me down when I would try to start heading to the surface. He would then pull me around the reef until we had less than 500psi remaining, sometimes until it was hard to suck air. We once had to CESA in 60 feet as we were completely out.
This was an extreme relationship, one in which I often felt I had "no choice" but to do what he wanted. I would otherwise pay the consequences in more unpleasant ways.
There is a reason why I now have restraining order, gun and Doberman. Life is much more normal now and my dives consist of normal dives, often surfacing with more than half my gas left.
This really isn't the place to discuss this toxic relationship although I'm sure there are millions of women in similar situations, most certainly some are diving with their partners and having their lives endangered in many other ways.
Let's just say I can empathize with the Watson family, who lost their daughter on her honeymoon diving. Apparently, she didn't even want to get certified but "he would kill her" if she didn't. I often made decisions in the past for this very same reason. Luckily, I got out relatively intact and still able to enjoy the sport I love.
Bubbletrubble
Contributor
@veron: Thanks for the follow-up post.
Diving is one of those sports during which, even if you do everything correctly, you can still get hurt. The downwelling was a massive curve ball. You did well to survive it. Now you can reference this experience and know exactly what to do the next time it happens.
That being said, DM briefings vary throughout the world. In SoCal, I expect the pre-dive briefings to be more detailed since the DM doesn't enter the water with the divers. Typically, there's a safety briefing/orientation at the time of boarding...and a separate detailed pre-dive briefing just before the gate time (when everyone enters the water). The pre-dive briefing addresses any hazards at the site (current, kelp, specific entanglements, dangerous critters, navigational challenges, etc.), the underwater topography (depth, anchor location) with suggestions about where to go, and where to look for interesting critters. On some dive boats, the DMs use a whiteboard in the pre-dive briefing as a visual aid. I really like this because it gives me an unambiguous snapshot of the site that I can think about while I'm underwater. 99% of the time I'll have an underwater camera with me, so I take a picture of the whiteboard that I later attach to my dive report.
Once again, thanks for sharing your story. I think we've all learned from it.
You've described two different methods to overcome a downwelling: (1) crawling up or (2) go with flow and kick to get out. One obvious disadvantage of clinging to the rocks below and crawling up...is that you're constantly fighting the flow of water. It's not surprising at all that you were running through your air. At some point, you have to make the determination that it might be better to establish buddy contact (grab an arm), let go of the rocks, and try to get out of the oppressive current.
Diving is one of those sports during which, even if you do everything correctly, you can still get hurt. The downwelling was a massive curve ball. You did well to survive it. Now you can reference this experience and know exactly what to do the next time it happens.
I'd say that the briefing you got was probably inadequate. However, as soon as I hear "strong currents," I go into conservative diving mode -- not straying far from the boat, beginning the dive going into the current, padding Rock Bottom calculations, staying closer to my dive buddy, surfacing with way more gas than usual, etc. It's certainly possible that the dearth of information during the dive briefing could be attributed to the inexperience of your DM.
That being said, DM briefings vary throughout the world. In SoCal, I expect the pre-dive briefings to be more detailed since the DM doesn't enter the water with the divers. Typically, there's a safety briefing/orientation at the time of boarding...and a separate detailed pre-dive briefing just before the gate time (when everyone enters the water). The pre-dive briefing addresses any hazards at the site (current, kelp, specific entanglements, dangerous critters, navigational challenges, etc.), the underwater topography (depth, anchor location) with suggestions about where to go, and where to look for interesting critters. On some dive boats, the DMs use a whiteboard in the pre-dive briefing as a visual aid. I really like this because it gives me an unambiguous snapshot of the site that I can think about while I'm underwater. 99% of the time I'll have an underwater camera with me, so I take a picture of the whiteboard that I later attach to my dive report.
Most SoCal divers would consider that level of DM direction annoyingly restrictive.
Once again, thanks for sharing your story. I think we've all learned from it.
From the point of view of someone who runs a dive operation in Bali, and having helped my Instructor husband personally trained all of our dive guides up to Assistant Instructor (SSI Dive Controller) and regularly dive Crystal Bay, I'm afraid that generally I must stand up for the dive operator in question.
Reason for this:
we regularly have dive guests who actually lie about their level of experience and logged dives in their log book, as it will become clear when we do 'check out' dives that, for example a guest boasting 150-250 dives+, will have the buoyancy control and air consumption of an Open water student. They are insistant that they are qualified enough for a Crystal Bay dive, so as an operator, we then have to take the hard decision as to whether or not we take them to a site that is in theory too challenging for them. Basically, our rules are that if any of my dive guides or myself feel that the dive site will be too challenging for them, then we will offer an alternative site based on their level of experience and comfort.
Unfortunately, a lot of other operators will not insist on a check out dive, before taking people to these dive sites.
In reality, sadly most divers who only dive on holiday, are used to being 'baby sat' by a DM/dive guide and have never had to plan and execute their own dives, hense we get this kind of problem a lot.
In the OP's defence, I have done over 1000 dives in Bali and the conditions can still 'bite us on the a*se', due to the fact that the conditions can change in seconds so this is another reason why we will not allow anyone dive without being accompanied by a dive guide/DM who ultimately makes the final call on whether a site is diveable or not.
It is very difficult to read conditions without having a lot of experience of Bali diving. (or elsewhere in the world)
Reason for this:
we regularly have dive guests who actually lie about their level of experience and logged dives in their log book, as it will become clear when we do 'check out' dives that, for example a guest boasting 150-250 dives+, will have the buoyancy control and air consumption of an Open water student. They are insistant that they are qualified enough for a Crystal Bay dive, so as an operator, we then have to take the hard decision as to whether or not we take them to a site that is in theory too challenging for them. Basically, our rules are that if any of my dive guides or myself feel that the dive site will be too challenging for them, then we will offer an alternative site based on their level of experience and comfort.
Unfortunately, a lot of other operators will not insist on a check out dive, before taking people to these dive sites.
In reality, sadly most divers who only dive on holiday, are used to being 'baby sat' by a DM/dive guide and have never had to plan and execute their own dives, hense we get this kind of problem a lot.
In the OP's defence, I have done over 1000 dives in Bali and the conditions can still 'bite us on the a*se', due to the fact that the conditions can change in seconds so this is another reason why we will not allow anyone dive without being accompanied by a dive guide/DM who ultimately makes the final call on whether a site is diveable or not.
It is very difficult to read conditions without having a lot of experience of Bali diving. (or elsewhere in the world)
Tricia
Contributor
Dr. Tracy,
Thanks for sharing that with us, I know it's not easy to talk about these issues. But it's truly a lesson for all of us that you have to know AND TRUST your dive buddy. Yes, you are there for his safety, but he is there for yours. I myself refused to do a second dive with an insta-buddy I was assigned this summer because I feared for my safety - the guy was going way too fast and way too deep for me and doing crazy diving (going the wrong way through a swim through against other divers, etc.). The dive captain was kind of nasty about it (acting like I was being an unreasonable, paranoid baby) and it was unpleasant the second half of the boat ride. But when I got back to the resort, I found FOUR other people who had also done one dive with this guy and then refused to do another...
Trish
I'm with you on that Trish. I too have refused an instabuddy. Didn't make me popular but made me safe!
- Messages
- 2,739
- Reaction score
- 769
- # of dives
- 500 - 999
Thanks Trish. I think there are a lot of us, particularly women, who don't stand up for ourselves, at least not right away. It's unfortunate and it crosses all classes and professions. My husband is doing his PhD research on domestic murder victims and a questionnaire that can predict possible victims. It appears that it could be a fairly sensitive tool. It's pretty amazing how often it happens, particularly in the state that I spent most of my marriage in, OK. And, the most dangerous time is the immediate time right after leaving.
Anyway, I look back on those 100-150 dives (lost my dive log when I left) and they scare crap out of me. But I loved diving so much that I refused to sit out, despite knowing the risks. I did some solo dives during that time too and they were so relaxing.
Now that I have a real dive buddy, my new husband, who is also an instructor, diving is in a whole nuther realm. I also went to Pemba Island, Africa before meeting my husband and dove with an inst-buddy and couldn't believe how great a "real buddy was for a change!
Anyway, I look back on those 100-150 dives (lost my dive log when I left) and they scare crap out of me. But I loved diving so much that I refused to sit out, despite knowing the risks. I did some solo dives during that time too and they were so relaxing.
Now that I have a real dive buddy, my new husband, who is also an instructor, diving is in a whole nuther realm. I also went to Pemba Island, Africa before meeting my husband and dove with an inst-buddy and couldn't believe how great a "real buddy was for a change!
Similar threads
