Choice, Challenges and Egos.

[oceancrest67]

I have been reading through several threads on Scuba Board. Many of the threads run on with travel, training and equipment issues and concerns. Many discussions are great places to learn new ideas and get information.

What has been bugging me for a long time…and perhaps this is related outside of diving…but, what has been bugging me is an apparent ‘culture of ego’ and a crass ‘keeping up with the Joneses’ mentality in diving and in getting certified. There is this tourist herd rush into diving, a rubber stamping certification run for the next level.

In my opinion, what is missing in many divers is a good, concerted effort and skill practice. Among the more ‘advanced’ crowd of divers (tech divers perhaps), there appears to be this bloated ego culture of getting that next china plate or scraping up some other trophy.

My feeling is that many divers miss out on something in their mad rush to the next level. How many of you have dived with an inexperienced instructor, or have been diving with someone who should not be diving? How about an overweight instructor/out of shape dive buddy and you wonder whether he/she has had a good yearly physical? How about the macho / loud mouth diver who has got to advertise the value of his equipment?

I ski, dive, hike, camp and travel…I enjoy many of these activities not in the competitive spirit with someone else or for some trophy, but I enjoy them for the experience and meeting the challenge to improve my skills. I have been diving for about ten years now. I consider myself a good recreational diver and I am about to finish off my DM. I am Nitrox, cavern and intro cave certified. I do a bunch of quarry dives for practice, and I do a bunch of wreck diving off of NC when the summer season kicks in.

I grew up overseas. I have lived and traveled in parts of Asia and Europe. I have dived in Mexico and the Caribbean. I have seen and experienced much. I take my diving seriously. In this sense, I do understand that many other divers enjoy the same or have had similar experiences and back grounds.

In some way, my point here is the Zen and the Art of scuba diving. I see diving as an all encompassing sport involving many angles and variables…the more the edge, the more unpredictable the nature of things.

For example, when I was working on my cavern and cave certifications…the training tightened up my skills and equipment set up…but, what seemed even more important was the character and maturity of one’s dive buddy. Shouldn’t this be a concern in regular recreational diving?

I just do not buy the cavalier arrogance some divers promote and I question the promotional marketing of certification agencies / LDS…casting a wide net to promote the sport, to sell gear and resort accommodations. They almost make it too easy. Yes, true…I started off with PADI and I continue to certify with PADI…the materials are constructive and work well with a good instructor.

I understand that people have to make a living, but what bugs me though is the inevitable…the pending squeeze when all remote locations have been picked over and sold in glossy magazines.

I understand that this is my opinion. Perhaps some of you might care to contribute.

Thank you.

 

[The Kraken]

OC67,
So, so many things come with experience, age, study and an understanding, however meager, of life.
In my humble opinion, too many people make too much of what classes they've taken, what gear they've purchased and how much it cost, and what they've done in order to be able to see a fish.
Aren't the fish beautiful and marvelous creatures?!

 

[gfisher4792]

Oh, you'll definitely run into the card chasing crowd in scuba, as well as ego-oriented people, but you'll find that everywhere. Still, there are also a lot of the Zen-type of people, who dive just to enjoy the underwater world (guilty myself), they're just typically not as vocal as the keeping-up-with-the-Jones' crowd. Again, something you'll find everywhere.

 

[Snowbear]

There is this tourist herd rush into diving, a rubber stamping certification run for the next level.

In my opinion, what is missing in many divers is a good, concerted effort and skill practice.

Maybe many divers mistakenly think achieving the next certification level is an affirmation of greater skill?

My feeling is that many divers miss out on something in their mad rush to the next level. How many of you have dived with an inexperienced instructor, or have been diving with someone who should not be diving? How about an overweight instructor/out of shape dive buddy and you wonder whether he/she has had a good yearly physical? How about the macho / loud mouth diver who has got to advertise the value of his equipment?

Yep, I have dove with the inexperienced, the out-of-shape, the macho, the loudmouth. Yet somehow I still usually manage to enjoy something about the dive (hard to be a loudmouth under water ) and often was able to be the buddy someone was looking for to be able to go diving. What's wrong with that?
So what if they make jokes about my "Die Rite" wing? I learned a long time ago that it's better not to care about stuff like that.

I ski, dive, hike, camp and travel…
I enjoy ...
I have been diving for about ten years now.
I consider myself a good ...
I am ...
I do ...
I have...
I have dived...
I have seen and experienced much...
I take my diving seriously....
I do understand...
I was working on...

I just do not buy the cavalier arrogance some divers promote

OK

I question the promotional marketing of certification agencies / LDS…casting a wide net to promote the sport, to sell gear and resort accommodations. They almost make it too easy. Yes, true…I started off with PADI and I continue to certify with PADI…the materials are constructive and work well with a good instructor.

Sounds to me like the marketing campaign worked. Good instructors are key to good training and often hard to find - glad you found one.

 

[beachdivequeenbelam]

I feel the same as you and just recently had a string going on here about proper weighting. I knew I was doing (correction almost everything) to sink but I was basically attacked by some because they took that question as I am a total idiot and some of them basically said just that. I am working on my DM and Rescue now and I will admit that I do what to have all the cards. I am PADI as well. It is not however because I personally feel it is to keep up with the Jones on my part but I do know what you mean. I have been fornunate and I do all my diving with my instructor. He is a family friend. He won't pass someone until they are ready. His girlfriend went to FL with him this weekend, and he won't give her her c card yet because he feels she needs more experience first. I have the same opinion you do lose something in the mad dash for cards. I want to get the Project Aware certs and so I am studying and learning the fish on my all outside of class because it is important to me to be more than object in the water. If I don't learn about how to protect and how to do dives properly to protect the underwater enviroment and myself then I don't need to be diving. I can't do that without the cards unfortunately on some things. I think that having a good instructor regardless of the agency is the most important thing. I know my instructor will not give me my cards and won't let me get my DM or AI until I am absolutely postively ready. He has already got me set up for my Instructor when I am ready with Emerald Coast Scuba in Denstin. I thank GOd for MArk(my instructor ) every day and for his friendship and if I mess up or my mistake he tells me and when I do something right, he tells that too. I know when I get through as his student I will be ready whenever that may be.

 

[dweeb]

What has been bugging me for a long time…and perhaps this is related outside of diving…but, what has been bugging me is an apparent ‘culture of ego’ and a crass ‘keeping up with the Joneses’ mentality in diving and in getting certified. There is this tourist herd rush into diving, a rubber stamping certification run for the next level.

Of course. This is because diving has been marketed as yet another de rigeur trendy activity, and this marketing is aimed at people who just want to get their "experience ticket" punched before moving on to the next station (like bungee jumping) so they can say "been there, done that" when the subject of diving comes up at the local sports bar on a Friday night. Wanna make a lot of money? Market something to the most shallow segment of society.

My feeling is that many divers miss out on something in their mad rush to the next level.

But some people, who wouldn't otherwise do so, rush to the next level, especially tech diving, just to differentiate/escape from the ticket punchers. The cattle boats fill up with dilletantes, and so people look to enter a new venue that hasn't been penetrated.

How many of you have dived with an inexperienced instructor, or have been diving with someone who should not be diving? How about an overweight instructor/out of shape dive buddy and you wonder whether he/she has had a good yearly physical? How about the macho / loud mouth diver who has got to advertise the value of his equipment?

SEEN while diving, yes. Dove WITH, no.

I ski, dive, hike, camp and travel…

Then you've seen it elsewhere. I can't begin to count the ski resorts that have essentially become bars that also have skiing available. It's hard to find a corner of the earth that doesn't cater to the Ugly American (except maybe France.)

I just do not buy the cavalier arrogance some divers promote and I question the promotional marketing of certification agencies / LDS…casting a wide net to promote the sport, to sell gear and resort accommodations. They almost make it too easy.

Hey, but they're making money!

I understand that people have to make a living,

That's the rub; they don't have to make it diving. Do your day job, and don't turn something you love into a mercenary game. Resist the PADI propoganda that tries to get every OW student to seek a career in diving. Hey, everybody likes sex, but that doesn't mean they leave accounting or programming to become a prostitute.

but what bugs me though is the inevitable…the pending squeeze when all remote locations have been picked over and sold in glossy magazines.

It's almost here now.

 

[ArcticDiver]

Maybe sometimes people lose focus on the fact that no matter what we call ourselves (Recreational Divers, Tech Divers, DIR Divers, or Whatever) unless we are getting paid we are all Amateur Divers. That means we dive to have Fun. In the best tradition of Amateurism that also means we do our Fun thing as skillfully as possible.

It also means that there is room for lots of different motives for diving. Who is to say which motive or type of diving is more worthy than another? Certainly not me.

 

[Curt Bowen]

Oh, you'll definitely run into the card chasing crowd in scuba, as well as ego-oriented people, but you'll find that everywhere.

Is it ego or experience?

Some advanced and technical divers can come across to the new diver or the outsider as an egotistical ass. I have been accused of this myself at times to those who do not know me.

Many times people come across as asses only because you do not know them, have not spent any time on a dive or boat with them.

I have dove with thousands of divers over the past 22 years and in 99.9% of the time I have found divers to be good people and fun to be with no matter their level of experience.

I said level of experience because level of training does not count. Why, because with today’s pathetic rubber-stamped courses many divers who hold all the cards (including instructors) really hold no experience. I know open water divers with 100X more experience than some course directors and instructors.

Diving is a fins on sport. Experience is the only card that counts in my book.

I don’t need to see your certification card, all I need to see is your equipment and how you swim in the water to tell if you’re a GOOD diver or a BS card collector.

 

[Scottri]

The more I dive the less I pay attention to certification levels. The problem with Scuba is it's easy to quantify by number of dives, number of cards and such. Neither are a very good yard stick but the ego maniacs place a lot of value in both. I've been a DM for a few years and I mellow with age. I never mention how many dives I have unless asked and I rarely mention I'm a DM. I think some people feel the need to one up someone without realizing that nobody much cares.


Scott

 

[junior diver]

Maybe many divers mistakenly think achieving the next certification level is an affirmation of greater skill?

how can you have a great level of skill in diving, maybe at the level im at you need no skill but i just wonder is there any diving what you need great skill for