Checklists: If surgical teams don't comply, what hope do divers have?

[CuzzA]

Storker,

The context and topic of this thread is the use of printed checklists in diving. What you call a mental checklist, I call suiting up. I don't want to get in a discussion over semantics, but for a recreational open circuit dive there's just not much to check... Do I have all of my gear on? Yes. Is my gas turned on? Yes. Does my reg deliver gas based on confirming operation with a few breaths? Yes. Okay, see you guys later!

Is it a metal check list? Yeah, it would meet the definition. But again, the context of this thread is prevention of scuba accidents by using a check list. If I leave my mask, fins, computer, wetsuit, BFK, SMB, etc. on the boat, am I going to likely suffer an accident? Of course not. Go back and get it. If I forget to turn on my gas will I have an accident, doubtful, but it could happen and that's why I pointed out in terms of accident prevention, 'is my gas on?' is the singularly most important "check." And you shouldn't need a check list to avoid making that mistake.

 

[Storker]

Sure, BWARF is a non-physical mnemonic checklist.

Then we agree completely, and I must have misunderstood this:

Even BWRAF is a checklist. Short, sure, not brought on physical medium, sure, but still a checklist.

NO!

My apologies.

 

[NAND]

Habits kill. Thumbs up for the checklist design!
I used a Brother labelprinter with 'strong adhesive' stickers on my Petrel- sticks already for >100 dives counting. I found this working best if the base material is degreased with a tiny bit of rubbing alcohol prior.

 

[doctormike]

Then we agree completely, and I must have misunderstood this:.

But read the next paragraph of my reply:

NO!!

This may be a semantic thing, but BWRAF is a mnemonic. And a mnemonic can fail. A physical checklist will always tell you the same thing no matter what (see my last response).

The point that you are making IS a semantic thing. And I stand by my opinion that if it really matters, you should use a physical checklist.

 

[doctormike]

I found this working best if the base material is degreased with a tiny bit of rubbing alcohol prior.

Good idea....!

 

[doctormike]

in terms of accident prevention, 'is my gas on?' is the singularly most important "check." And you shouldn't need a check list to avoid making that mistake.

But we apparently do, since there are many reports of that causing CCR accidents. If you can breathe comfortably through your gear while getting in the water with your gas off, then "turn on your gas" is a good thing to be reminded of.

 

[rjack321]

If I forget to turn on my gas will I have an accident, doubtful, but it could happen and that's why I pointed out in terms of accident prevention, 'is my gas on?' is the singularly most important "check." And you shouldn't need a check list to avoid making that mistake.

Yet people die with shocking regularity from exactly this scenario. You can breath a CCR with the O2 off until 1 of 2 things happen:
1) the loop had a fairly high fO2 in it when you started breathing it. In which case you will eventually find yourself with inadequate loop volume and can't inhale. This is quite obvious and not necessarily life threatening
2) the loop had air or a non-high fO2 gas in it. In this case you will consume all the oxygen before the loop volume drops to the point where there's nothing left to breath except nitrogen and/or helium. If this happens on the boat you will pass out and fall off the bench. In the water you will pass out and drown. Dozens of CCR divers have drowned due to a failure to make sure their O2 is turned on.

 

[CuzzA]

But we apparently do, since there are many reports of that causing CCR accidents. If you can breathe comfortably through your gear while getting in the water with your gas off, then "turn on your gas" is a good thing to be reminded of.

Yes, but let's be honest. You can breath for a while on CC and you won't be given any indication your gas is off. A few puffs on OC and you'll quickly realize your gas is off. Remember, my OP was just a side note that I don't see how it applies in rec diving, but if someone wants to use a printed predive checklist, more power to them. I haven't seen that practiced.

Given the complexity of technical/CC diving, I agree with the OP. A predive gear check list and a printed dive plan should be part of the execution of the dive.

I think my side note about rec. diving may be distracting from the focus of the discussion. My apologies.

 

[CuzzA]

Yet people die with shocking regularity from exactly this scenario. You can breath a CCR with the O2 off until 1 of 2 things happen:
1) the loop had a fairly high fO2 in it when you started breathing it. In which case you will eventually find yourself with inadequate loop volume and can't inhale. This is quite obvious and not necessarily life threatening
2) the loop had air or a non-high fO2 gas in it. In this case you will consume all the oxygen before the loop volume drops to the point where there's nothing left to breath except nitrogen and/or helium. If this happens on the boat you will pass out and fall off the bench. In the water you will pass out and drown. Dozens of CCR divers have drowned due to a failure to make sure their O2 is turned on.

You posted while I was typing. See my reply above.

 

[Lorenzoid]

The context and topic of this thread is the use of printed checklists in diving. . . .

No, the original post clearly attempted to encompass both printed and verbal checklists:

. . .
So why shouldn’t we use a short, hard-copy checklist for rebreather diving or a cross-checked verbal checklist for areas where the risks are less? . . .