Changes to Fundies...

[StSomewhere]

This will NOT be two different courses. One course, one instructor two standards. Any fundamentals instructor can certify either rec or tec. Will be clear in standards. A student can do the upgrade with ANY current Fundies Instructor.

Bob, this is a great idea. From the old fundies system it would be a concern about upgrading a provisional for those of us who don't live in FL, WA or CA (FWIW, this the primary reason I started with Essentials). Nice to know that any fundies instructor would be able to upgrade a Rec-F to Tech-F (or whatever its being called).

I'd think 4 full days would almost always need to be split across 2 weekends??? Again, having instructors within driving distance or not will likely gate how the longer classes will be accomplished.

Though this might actually work out very well for a travelling diver who may be able to hang out and spend the intervening weekdays practicing. :14: Providing they had enough in-water instruction in the first two days to have something to practice.

 

[cmalinowski]

y00 r n07 31337! u \/\/i11 b h4ax0r3d!!!!

Just saying that bob's not only one of the best instructors in the northeast, but also on the planet...

Darn! I missed the opportunity to say how great of an instructor Bob is. Some people just have a knack for being a good instructor and Bob is one of them. If you go onto the ne-ue website, you'll find the "sherwood army" (much like the Kiss Army of the 70's) and can get more info there.

If you want to see where several of the ne-ue divers live in relation to you, you can go onto www.frappr.com/neue and see the google map. I'm way down south in MD...

Chris

 

[jagfish]

I think the most significant change GUE could affect is to normalize the system for increasing the number of instructors...

At this point, they could quadruple the number of instructors and still be minuscule...

 

[Bob Sherwood]

NORMALIZE? compared to what? GUE is not interested in quadrupling the instructor base unless it can be done with high quality people/instructors. These people and the degree of dedication to get there/stay there, are not easy to come by. GUE continues to grow the base at a slow and steady pace (currently 46) Anyone interested should step forward into the process. Best, Bob

I think the most significant change GUE could affect is to normalize the system for increasing the number of instructors...

At this point, they could quadruple the number of instructors and still be minuscule...[/QUOTE

 

[jagfish]

Hi Bob
I've heard a lot of good things about your instruction, Henryville always speaks highly of you (amongst many others).

Respectfully, by normalize, I mean having more than one or two people in the entire world that can run an IDC and certify instructors...(I might be wrong on that, is there more than me or two?)

When I took Fundies a little over a year ago, I don't know how many instructors there were, but my GUE instructor told me that at the time, there were only 20 active instructors in the world.

I certainly understand the valid point about QC, and I think GUE could take steps to make becoming an instructor easier, while not sacrificing quality. This is my opinion, others are free to feel the opposite, or somewhere in between.

I've heard a number of excellent technical divers lamenting about the lack of access to instructor-level training and the prohibitive cost of having to travel to "intern", and do IDC training/testing. I've also heard issues about the frequency of IDC, (no doubt related to the number of people that can conduct this training).

To be fair, I don't really know how may IDCs there are a year or where, this is just the talk I have heard in some of the technical divers I have met.

I think GUE provides some great training. I'd like to see it more widely available.

Jim

 

[Bob Sherwood]

Jim
There are several reasons the process is slow.The commitment made by the founding members of GUE was to maintain quality over growth. Making good quality instructors is the hardest thing GUE does. one must complete fundamentals, and Tec 1/Cave 1, then they must audit a complete fundamentals course before making application to be an instructor candidate, along with a current instructors endorsement that they might be good for the organization. There is a 10 day ITC, where several members of the training committee (up to 7 people) conduct various tasks and training scenario's. Then a number of interning co-teaching assignments to prepare for the IE. By design it is not an easy process. This allows GUE to assess the desire and commitment of the candidates, and spend enough time with them to get a feel for ethics* and integrity*.(*an ongoing process) There were 5 ITC's last year alone. plus IE's, this represents at least 25% of the year dedicated to just making new instructors (not including all the interning and co-teaching. (more like 50%<G>) Many of these candidates are close to completing the process. Agreed that interning does require an fair financial investment,but with good return at the end. As the organization grows it will become less of a challenge to intern, but without growth there is no way to minimize this and maintain quality. In time more will move to GUE as the logistics to complete the process becomes less of an obstacle.Those that come before will have demonstrated a higher level of commitment. Those that are waiting or want it to be easier now are saying .....I'll do it when it is easier, or it is too hard so forget it. However, they forfeit the ability to forge the future. I remember other organizations that started out with good intentions, but caved to the pressure of growth vs. quality growth. Best, bob

a little over a year ago, I don't know how many instructors there were, but my GUE instructor told me that at the time, there were only 20 active instructors in the world.
I certainly understand the valid point about QC, and I think GUE could take steps to make becoming an instructor easier, while not sacrificing quality. This is my opinion, others are free to feel the opposite, or somewhere in between.
I've heard a number of excellent t
echnical divers lamenting about the lack of access to instructor-level training and the prohibitive cost of having to travel to "intern", and do IDC training/testing. I've also heard issues about the frequency of IDC, (no doubt related to the number of people that can conduct this training).
To be fair, I don't really know how may IDCs there are a year or where, this is just the talk I have heard in some of the technical divers I have met.

I think GUE provides some great training. I'd like to see it more widely available.

Jim

 

[*Floater*]

Sorry if I missed it (this is a long thread), but what is the incentive to take DIR-F rec instead of DIRF-F tech other than maybe saving some money on rental fees? I mean, are the skills you learn equipment specific? Would someone who takes the course in doubles miss out on important singles skills?

 

[MonkSeal]

Would someone who takes the course in doubles miss out on important singles skills?

No, but in the opposite situation would. I seriously doubt that anyone who usualy dives singles would enjoy the class using rental doubles. Also, the benefit of such class is doubtfull. What's the point of taking class using the equipment you usually don't use? I took DIR-F in doubles because I dive doubles (BTW all students in that class were using doubles) but if I was diving singles I would take it with singles.

 

[*Floater*]

No, but in the opposite situation would. I seriously doubt that anyone who usualy dives singles would enjoy the class using rental doubles. Also, the benefit of such class is doubtfull. What's the point of taking class using the equipment you usually don't use? I took DIR-F in doubles because I dive doubles (BTW all students in that class were using doubles) but if I was diving singles I would take it with singles.

Well, the class might be less enjoyable, but if you'd learn more... I do agree there would be no point if you know with near certainty that you will never use doubles, but I think a lot of singles divers fall into the grey area where they don't really know whether they'll use doubles at some point in the future.

 

[MonkSeal]

Well, the class might be less enjoyable, but if you'd learn more...

I don't see DIR-F as a class where someone will learn you to dive doubles. Generaly, the rule is: use the equipment you're used to. You have enough other tasks to manage, you don't need something more to deal with.