Change.org Petition, Stop Shark Baiting

[docmartin]

Are you saying those who dive to observe don't participate in conservation events?

1. not at all - I clearly stated I'd be "interested to find out". By the way, I am not talking about conservation but very specifically shark conservation (not ocean, rain forest, coral reef, spotted owl...).

2. People who participate in shark feeds do it precisely to observe. they dive to observe just as you do. They just like to get closer and have more certainty to encounter a shark.

3. in your later post you ask: "If we don't know the side effects of feeding, then why do we do it?" You suggest "to make a buck". Feeding, like pretty much anything else, is demand and not supply driven. The operator is the supplier. "to make a buck" therefore completely misses the mark. For the why you have to look at the consumer. Sharks are awe inspiring, fascinating and beautiful creatures. Many people want to experience them up close and for more than just a passing glance. Most do not live in Florida and only dive a few days a year. they'd like to increase the odds of getting to see a shark.

Finally, we do know some of the side effects of shark feeding. Shark feeding has undeniably led to greater protection for sharks e.g. no more long lining in the Bahamas just to name one. There are undoubtedly other side effects. At this point they are mostly conjecture rather than scientifically established fact. To be clear, that they are conjecture does not make them wrong, just unproven. Personally, I am a big fan of science and proof. Others ask for more laws and restrictions based on conjecture and launch petitions to that effect. Different philosophies...

 

[HalcyonDaze]

I've been really making an effort to not slander or take sides in this thread. Those who are against shark feeding feel strongly about it. Those who are for it, besides yourself, are just troll posting. If we don't know the side effects of feeding, then why do we it? To make a buck? Sharks are animals and will adapt to environmental changes. They've done it for millions of years against all odds. Does this mean it's more dangerous for divers? Who knows. I realize these changes don't equate to every shark encounter nor to every shark, because it would be impossible to hand feed every shark in the ocean and not all sharks will respond the same.

I've only witnessed one shark stalking (I use that term lightly) a dive I was on after stealing a speared lionfish at the beginning of the dive. It was swimming close to divers (within a couple of feet) and hanging around, probably hoping for another free meal. I wasn't afraid, I didn't even know it took the lionfish. I did think it odd that it was hanging around pretty close when all my other encounters with sharks resulted in them acting like we either weren't there or they swam away maintaining their distance. Is it a modified behavior, who knows, but it was an unexpected behavior none the less. You dismissed me in the other thread simply based on a dive count, which was semi insulting, as if I'm not intelligent enough to recognize a different behavior than previous encounters. This behavior could be learned from associating the sound of the spear hitting the reef based on past interactions with spear fisherman and have absolutely nothing to do with Randy's feeding. In all fairness, I've yet to see anyone trying to ban spearfishing.

In the end, do whatever as long as it's legal. I mostly dive the reefs off Jupter/WPB within state waters, so keep the feeding beyond the boundary and it's a non issue. I doubt the change.org petition will amount to anything since anyone can go there and create a petition. If Randy broke the law, then he should have the book thrown at him for his post comments about his business thriving because of publicity. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it. Will I ever dive his boat? Who knows. Not every trip he does is for feeding. I do hope he has contingency plans for the day that an accident does happen. I don't want to see him get hurt, and I also didn't want to see Steve Irwin get hurt, but sh*t happens. Sharks and all animals are unpredictable and in one video, he was handling a pretty excited tiger. To his credit, he remained calm and managed the situation, but it was close. Human are fragile, all it would take is a tooth to accidentally swipe his hand or arm and you'll have blood in the water. But that's the risk he and the divers take. I'll pass, diving is dangerous enough, and I make decisions to make diving safer, not dangerous, so that I can return home at the end of the day to my daughters.

The problem I have with folks taking descriptions of sharks "stalking" divers for handouts is that well, they are sharks. Getting mugged is a fairly common experience for divers who are spearing and has been for decades. It happened to me on approach to the Lemon Drop two weeks ago; I had just cleared a lionfish off my tamer stick (I had spotted another) and a lemon zipped up behind me, cut around, took the fish and left. Last year on Tunnels I had a reef shark get very interested in me while I had a lionfish in my bucket. When I was helping a Ph.D student out in my undergrad days I had to deal with some nurse sharks that were highly interested in the parrotfish I was collecting by spear. Now, is that because sharks have been fed at those locations in the past, or because they were investigating a bleeding fish - which has been a cornerstone of their lives for the last few hundred million years?

After my lionfish was taken on the dive two weeks ago, I stopped at one point to take photos of a nurse shark under a ledge. I found out later that while I was concentrating on getting a shot I had three lemons buzzing my head. I never had a clue they were there. I did see a few - another diver counted three distinct ones - passing in and out of visual range throughout the dive. I had to surface before reaching the actual Lemon Drop site (the current was so anemic that I ran low on gas and bottom time); when the main group got there they had about six lemons swimming in close proximity. The DM had one practically swim between her legs. No aggression; they just didn't mind getting close. Now, could that be abnormal behavior induced by feeding? Possibly. I could also think of a number of other explanations, including (in my case) that they figured out I was shooting fish and decided I must have been after something good under that ledge. Another possible explanation (although I don't necessarily buy into it) is that we're seeing more lemons because the fishing season got knocked back into June, partially due to Randy and his customers petitioning NMFS.

I do agree that Randy pushes it sometimes; in particular he should probably tone down the handling antics when he has multiple sharks. I've seen a number of near-misses on the YouTube vids; that tiger shark clip you're referring to is one. One clip that was done in murky water has him getting double-teamed twice (once by two lemons and once by a lemon and a goliath grouper) and in one of those his hand nearly goes in a lemon shark's mouth. That's why I said I think the insurance companies have already taken notice of this and acted accordingly; I'm sure someone has already come up with the odds that Randy is going to get bit one day. How he manages those odds is up to him. Personally, I stay a ways back from the chow line and make a note to GTFO if the sharks start going squirrely. That's one of the reasons diving on the Emerald is an occasional adventure for me rather than my typical weekend; the level of alertness I put myself at for those (and the fact that it's a mission - see sharks at close quarters and photograph them) is at odds with my idea of a lazy day in the water.

 

[jimw]

Palm Beach shark feeding case goes to court - Sun Sentinel

 

[HalcyonDaze]

"We had GPS units on the divers." Hmm, that's a new one. Wonder where I can get me one of those handy-dandy gadgets that works 85 feet underwater? I'd never miss a wreck again, and plotting positions on seagrass beds and corals would be a hell of a lot easier!

 

[SandyBramm]

I'm a dive instructor in Florida, have been for 14 years, and I teach over a hundred students a year...I've never even heard of Florida Association of Dive Instructors??? Just saying??

 

[HalcyonDaze]

I was wondering about that myself, Sandy. It appears to be more of a business lobbying group than an actual professional association. The nondescript Chamber of Commerce boilerplate and the use of a misleading video clip has me smelling something funny here.


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[MrChen]

They have a Facebook page, that makes them official right?

 

[kelemvor]

"We had GPS units on the divers." Hmm, that's a new one. Wonder where I can get me one of those handy-dandy gadgets that works 85 feet underwater? I'd never miss a wreck again, and plotting positions on seagrass beds and corals would be a hell of a lot easier!

Is it a drift dive? I've never done one of these, but wouldn't the boat just go to "the spot", drop anchor, and divers do the deed right by the boat? Every feed video I've seen shows divers planted onto the bottom. The Nautilus Lifeline will record GPS coordinates of a diver at the surface.

Also from the same article:

In addition, he said, he later approached Jordan in uniform, told him the concerns and asked for the coordinates of where the shark-feeding took place. When he plotted them on a map, he said, he found they were in state waters.

So, if this is accurate then Randy already admitted to being in state waters at the time. Of course that's just an excerpt from a news article, and those are often wildly inaccurate.

 

[HalcyonDaze]

I believe the site in question is a drift dive; I have never to my recollection been on an anchored dive in a fixed location in West Palm or Jupiter. It's a stupid move; not only is anchoring on reefs FROWNED UPON in this establishment but if a diver gets swept away in the Gulf Stream you'd have to pull anchor and chase after them.

As far as using a Lifeline as a tracker - correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that requires you to activate the distress beacon. Which would be a very stupid move in that context - you will get fined for lighting that off in a non-emergency situation.


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[mscott556]

It's a drift dive where everyone settles on the bottom once they've found the spot.