Change Dive Shop / Instructor?

[boulderjohn]

BTW, if you go back to threads on this topic in the Instructor to Instructor forum on ScubaBoard from 15 years ago, you will find the overwhelming consensus is that students need to be taught on the knees. I was in that group myself. As I said in another thread, it was seeing Discover Scuba students learn to dive faster than OW students that got me thinking. (In Discover Scuba, I taught only the most basic skills on the knees--after that it was all neutrally buoyant fun and games.) That was my impetus to start experimenting with less and less instruction on the knees and more and more time neutrally buoyant. I eventually got to the point that my students were never on their knees.

 

[tursiops]

how am I to know for sure that my instructor is great or the best one to teach me?

Tough question, but you can narrow things down a bit.

If you are not learning, if everything seems difficult, if there is no decent chemistry with your instructor, if your questions and concerns get blown off...then that is NOT the instructor for you. They may not be a bad instructor, but they are not suited to you.

However, just because you are having fun, everything you ask or say is acknowledged, you get an OK sign every time you do something, nothing seems hard....that does NOT necessarily mean you have a good instructor, because they may be sliding through or ignoring important stuff, not demanding you do the skills properly, or even teaching you the wrong or dangerous stuff.

I've taught (not scuba) various subjects in colleges, social groups, and to friends and family; I suggest that if the student doesn't understand or can't do something, it is my fault, not theirs. I didn't explain it well, or show them the right techniques, or lead them through what THEY need in terms of information and practice. It is the scuba instructor's job to make sure the student "gets it;" anything less is a bad instructor.

 

[Belzelbub]

I have a question and a follow-up question. I love my instructor and believe she is doing a great job. I have learned a lot. I have also read a number of posts here where the response starts with "If you had a better instructor..." As a newbie, how am I to know for sure that my instructor is great or the best one to teach me? How would I know the difference if I have no comparison other than the internet? I can find multiple opinions on almost any topic on the internet.

If you've learned a lot, I would agree with you. The role of the instructor is to teach you all the required skills to a reasonable comfort level. If you feel you are comfortable with all the skills, then I'd say your instructor is at least doing a good job.

I'm also of the opinion that different students require different competencies in their instructors. There are some students who take to the skills quickly without much need for correction, instruction, and repetition. These students can easily get by with a lesser instructor than a student that really struggles with some of the skills.

I'm not an instructor. I feel I would make a terrible instructor, but maybe not. I was one of those who did not have any trouble with any of the skills in OW, or really any of the other courses I've taken since. My daughters were the same way. Knowing I'd probably make a terrible instructor, I did not even let them breathe off a regulator in our pool until they were done with their OW certs.

How do I know that I am getting the best instruction available?
Are there compelling reasons to use different dive shops and instructors if I am happy with the one I am currently working with?

I don't know of anyway you would know that you are getting the best instruction available. It should, however, be quite obvious when you aren't getting adequate instruction. This is when a change is needed. If you are happy with your current instructor, I really see no reason to change. If you are struggling with certain aspects, then a different instructor may be able to approach it differently, and that might be what it takes to make it click.

My original OW instructor was less than adequate. I still managed to do the skills quite easily. A lot of it came from being very comfortable in the water. The only checkout dives I did in that first course was over one day (maybe two dives) in a max of 8-10'. I had a scheduling conflict, and couldn't do the river dive (again, shallow), so did not get any actual swimming time with the gear. I left that course with an OW cert, but I didn't really feel comfortable.

So, now I have two OW certs. My other OW course was a complete 180. Lots of pool time. Course was over 6 weeks, and we were in the pool at least 4 hours each week. 5 checkout dives in the Keys. Much better, and I left that course a lot more comfortable with diving.

 

[boulderjohn]

My original OW instructor was less than adequate. I still managed to do the skills quite easily.

As someone whose job is once was to teach instructional strategies to teachers, I assure you that this is a very common problem in all forms of education. No matter how badly something is taught, some people will learn easily. In too many cases, those people then go on to teach themselves, and they teach the way they themselves were taught, saying, "Hey! It worked for me!"

One major issue that has arisen in education is the concept of learning styles. The theory is that different people learn in different ways and teachers need to identify each students learning style and adapt to it. New thinking is that the people who learn from poor teaching technique were not successful because the technique was suitable to their learning style--they learned in spite of that teaching poor technique and would have done better if they had been taught by the techniques that others absolutely have to have to succeed.

Another issue is math instruction. Research indicates that a small percentage of students learn the way math is traditionally taught, but that small percentage is the pool from whom math teachers are drawn, and they teach the way it worked for them, absolutely refusing to "dumb down" their teaching to reach the majority of their students better. (That refusal is real and it is ugly--I have felt it.)

 

[SlugLife]

I have a question and a follow-up question. I love my instructor and believe she is doing a great job. I have learned a lot. I have also read a number of posts here where the response starts with "If you had a better instructor..." As a newbie, how am I to know for sure that my instructor is great or the best one to teach me? How would I know the difference if I have no comparison other than the internet? I can find multiple opinions on almost any topic on the internet.

Without any additional info, this sounds like a good instructor. I presume you are learning, feel safe, and don't have any significant complaints? I'm assuming this is just an open-water course?

I might have to see the other discussions in order to determine why other people are being critical of this instructor. (If these are Facebook-comments, I'd use a heavy dose of skepticism).

Next question(s). Does it make sense to take the OW test from one dive shop and the AOW from a different dive shop? Will I learn more because of working with different people and places? Will I get different advice on gear or skills?

It's totally normal to take courses from different instructors and dive-shops. I'm not sure how often people switch dive-agencies for training, but IMO, that's not a big deal either, unless you are for some reason chasing useless badges.

How do I know that I am getting the best instruction available?
Are there compelling reasons to use different dive shops and instructors if I am happy with the one I am currently working with?

The short answer is you don't know. However, there are things you can do to improve the likelihood of good instruction:

• Read online reviews about the dive-shop, in particular looking at reviews of their scuba-courses.
• Perhaps do a quick search of any news or articles about the dive-shop (just in case there have been accidents).
• Determine what each course is supposed to teach, the duration, number of class-room days, number of dives, etc. More days and more dives is a great thing!
• Determine what equipment is (or isn't) provided with the class.
• If the dive-shop or instructor has videos they've posted, watch those. It's not super-common for these to be available for your run-of-the-mill dive-shop or classes. However, there are some gems out there, like the people who run sidemounting.com (who I'd love to take classes from).
• Do a little bit of research on the subject, to determine what is normally taught as part of that course, and what drills are usually run. See if the class you intend to take looks like it covers all of the same material.
• If someone did a great job, take more classes from that instructor. Also look for any local dive-meetups, meet some dive-buddies, and talk to random divers about good/bad classes they've taken.

For example a 3-hour classroom-only course for $100, is probably far less valuable-for-your-money than a $250 course with 1-class room day, plus 2 open-water days, with 2-dives each, with scuba-tanks provided.

 

[scrane]

OW is just your ticket to dive. After OW the learning starts.

 

[yle]

As a newbie, how am I to know for sure that my instructor is great or the best one to teach me? How would I know the difference if I have no comparison other than the internet?

You should feel that your class is preparing you to become a diver with sufficient mastery of the basic skills, and your class should be enjoyable. Your instructor should be able to provide both. If you feel that your instructor is not helping you master the basic skills (you should have the list of skills) or you are not enjoying the class, then you should have a different instructor.

As instructors, we succeed only when we create new divers that are enthusiastic for diving and will continue diving. It's been my experience that new divers will only continue diving if they had a positive experience in their OW class and they feel confident in their mastery of the basic skills.

With that said, if your instructor is teaching you well and you're having a good time with the class... keep going.

 

[yle]

People on this board get a bit carried away with their expectations of basic open water courses. You'll often hear people bagging on courses because you see students kneeling on the sand etc. The point is to teach basic skills to someone who has almost no diving experience... Anyone who says that their students are doing these skills hovering mid water in horizontal trim is totally full of it.
"Advanced" open water course is basically just a taster of what you can do in the future. Unless you take the optional buoyancy dive you wont really learn any new skills.

My partner and I used a different instructor and we wished we'd been able to stick with our original. Makes no difference in the long run though.

The instructors I know (myself included) consider decent buoyancy control a "basic skill". All of my students get this in their OW class.

I've never taught the "optional buoyancy dive" in the AOW course, because none of my OW students needed it. They did, however, learn quite a lot of new skills in their AOW courses... navigation, search & recovery, night diving, wreck diving, deep diving were the standard set.

If you didn't learn any new skills in your "advanced" class... I would suggest you are the exception and not the typical case.

 

[boulderjohn]

I would suggest you are the exception and not the typical case.

If there is one true consistency I have seen in my 18 years on ScubaBoard, it is that people assume that what they experienced in their scuba class is representative of what happens in all scuba classes.

 

[El Diablo]

I have a question and a follow-up question. I love my instructor and believe she is doing a great job. I have learned a lot. I have also read a number of posts here where the response starts with "If you had a better instructor..." As a newbie, how am I to know for sure that my instructor is great or the best one to teach me? How would I know the difference if I have no comparison other than the internet? I can find multiple opinions on almost any topic on the internet.

The problem with getting recommendations from people who have been diving for years would be the instructor might no longer be at the dive shop. Maybe they have additional duties now and do not have the time to spend that they used to have. Maybe they are going through a rough patch or a great time in their life and are not focused right now.

Next question(s). Does it make sense to take the OW test from one dive shop and the AOW from a different dive shop? Will I learn more because of working with different people and places? Will I get different advice on gear or skills?

One advantage might be getting to know more people who frequent or work at different shops. Because the shops will be close proximity, they will probably dive the same areas.

I am happy with the dive shop and instructor I am working with to get my OW. I am learning and enjoying my experience. I would not go to a different shop because of that.

How do I know that I am getting the best instruction available?
Are there compelling reasons to use different dive shops and instructors if I am happy with the one I am currently working with?

No it doesn't make any sense to change your Dive Center nor Instructor IF you are happy with your relationship and learning techniques. If she takes her job seriously and with passion, you will know and you will feel it.

IMO, the personal connection is extremely important when diving as you have to feel comfortable and trust the person you rely to teach you how to properly dive. The same goes for the other students in your class.

I was always extremely lucky to befriend my Instructors and that relation has endured during the years.
The people that are saying to you 'IF you had a better Instructor' don't know her nor have dove with her to have a personal opinion. That also applies to you, you have no experience with other Instructors so leaving someone you know and are happy with for someone you don't just in case he/she is better is also gambling with your 'education'.

Don't forget that you are just doing another easy step on your recreational path. AOW is not complicated so what matters is that you have fun and learn how to SAFE dive as you will be going deeper and things are less forgiving.

Stick to your Instructor, be open with her, if you don't understand something ASK and then ASK AGAIN until you are sure you got it. UW, do the same. Different people have different familiarity with different environments as for ex. being submerged, others are more 'natural', etc. Put your EGO aside and believe me when I say that no Instructor will be offended or make fun of you because you want to be a better diver so try to truly understand and learn the basics. You will gain experience AFTER getting certified. Baby steps. You will collect later