Certification-Which One?

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

Crush

Contributor
Messages
2,517
Reaction score
481
Location
Western Canada
# of dives
100 - 199
Then again it's my personal view that divers shouldn't go without a dive professional until they've done at least rescue, so maybe that says something.

I respect your personal opinion. My personal opinion is that every diver should progress at least to SRD. It is also my opinion that any diver in possession of a valid OW card (as opposed to "discovering scuba" or some such thing) should be able to dive safely (with a buddy) in a similar environment to that in which they were trained, without a DM holding their hand. It is my personal opinion that a C-card should be withheld by the instructor if the instructor would not be perfectly comfortable allowing said candidate to dive with that instructor's children without a DM (or anyone else) present.
 

gypsyjim

I have an alibi
ScubaBoard Supporter
Messages
36,506
Reaction score
34,214
Location
capital region of New York
# of dives
500 - 999
My original Y training took 7 weeks.

My kids PADI OW may have only taken 2 weekends, plus a few evenings, but I was there every minute of that time, and saw that they were very well trained. They were also taught, in no uncertain terms that the OW was only a first step, and did NOT prepare them for deeper waters, and more importantly, why.

When my 2 kids decided to follow up their OW with the PADI AOW I decided to take it also, as a refresher. I was impressed by the quality of the instruction, and the attention to detail at every step.

Is their training done, just because they have certified? I certainly hope not! I will encourage them to both continue, and seek out training from other sources, to expose themselves to other techniques, and approaches to the sport, and better develope their dive skills.

Right now I am doing training with GUE, and preparing to take their Fundies course, myself, because diving is always changing and I wish to keep expanding my own skill base and trying new things.
 

kaerius

Contributor
Messages
383
Reaction score
38
Location
Sweden
# of dives
500 - 999
Yes it does-it says that they are not qualified under your system till they have taken at least rescue.
They're certainly qualified to dive after the OW course. I'd say they're probably not qualified/experienced enough to do their own navigating until at least AOW or about 20 dives though. And they're not qualified to rescue another diver until they've done rescue, obviously.

My reasoning isn't because they're unsafe divers, but simply because they haven't had that awareness opening experience that the rescue course is, and would only be marginally helpful if something serious happened to their dive buddy. The most common cause of death among divers is heart attack btw.
 

DCBC

Banned
Messages
4,443
Reaction score
932
Location
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
I don't really know. However it might be regional(my impression is that CMAS isn't a homogenous agency), up here in sweden/scandinavia. I do know that it was one reason a friend of mine's mom picked CMAS over PADI. The reasoning I'm hearing is that it prevents buddy separation, and that many/most accidents have buddy separation as a factor. Then again I'm also hearing a lot of agency bashing from her... directed at the agency I teach for; as well as some things she's said that don't seem so good to me(she's been surface cover, and has no training, for example).

CMAS Standards do not demand buddy lines. CMAS (like every organization other than PADI) allows its instructors to add to the training requirements and make these required for certification. You may have experienced one CMAS instructor which requires this, so for his students buddy lines are required for him to certify the diver. Hope this helps.
 

DCBC

Banned
Messages
4,443
Reaction score
932
Location
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
Hello, Im new to the forum and to scuba diving in general. I have two dive shops in my area, One offers PADI and the other NAUI Certs. Does anyone have a suggestion on which cert to get? The positives and the negatives of either certs would be helpful. Thanks in advance.

I personally prefer NAUI from the choices given. There are many reasons why, but largely because diver rescue is a requirement of the NAUI program. I'm someone who believes that if you dive with a buddy, s/he should be trained to actually rescue you if you're in need. :)

What I recommend is for you to look at the number of training hours in the course and compare them. Assuming that the instructors are equal in ability, you can learn more in 40 hours than you can in 20 hours, for example. Some courses cost more than others and this is usually a reflection of the number of training hours.

Good luck with your training and have fun!
 

OldNSalty

Contributor
Messages
2,364
Reaction score
820
Location
Just this side of paradise.
# of dives
200 - 499
They're certainly qualified to dive after the OW course. I'd say they're probably not qualified/experienced enough to do their own navigating until at least AOW or about 20 dives though. And they're not qualified to rescue another diver until they've done rescue, obviously.

My reasoning isn't because they're unsafe divers, but simply because they haven't had that awareness opening experience that the rescue course is, and would only be marginally helpful if something serious happened to their dive buddy. The most common cause of death among divers is heart attack btw.

I suppose we just have a different opinion of what 'qualified' means. I think once leaving the course they should feel comfortable to dive in similar conditions down to about 130 feet and be able to render aid to their buddy should they need to.

Maybe that is unrealistic now days. Maybe we need a course that is taught as 3 separate classes over a few months with DM lead required dives in between the classes so that a person finishes up with Rescue about 25-50 dives under their belt.

I could be OK with that. I'm not OK with someone saying on one hand you are qualified as a diver and on the other hand saying you lack the skills and knowledge to be able to dive unsupervised. Those are conflicting ideas in my mind and is like calling a learner's permit a driver's license.
 

kaerius

Contributor
Messages
383
Reaction score
38
Location
Sweden
# of dives
500 - 999
Perhaps, I don't see any agencies that go that far though, and there'd be a lot fewer divers around if they did. Anyone know an agency that requires 30+ dives on their entry course?

It's certainly more ideal, but probably not very realistic. And what you mentioned, your opinions on what qualified are about the same as what I would like as a minimum.
 

DCBC

Banned
Messages
4,443
Reaction score
932
Location
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
Perhaps, I don't see any agencies that go that far though, and there'd be a lot fewer divers around if they did. Anyone know an agency that requires 30+ dives on their entry course?

It's certainly more ideal, but probably not very realistic. And what you mentioned, your opinions on what qualified are about the same as what I would like as a minimum.

A CMAS One Star Diver (*) requires a minimum of 40 hours of instruction with 6 dives. After certification, the diver must be accompanied by a diver with a ** (or better rating) and is limited to 60' until they move to the next level.

To enter a CMAS ** program the diver must have a minimum of 16 dives before entering the program (10 after certification). These 10 dives must be of various types and environments. The CMAS ** program includes 40 to 50 hours of academic and 20 openwater dives.

The 20 dives should cover a suitably wide range of different diving conditions and as far as possible include the following:

(11) Required Dives:
• (1) Navigation
• (1) Night or low visibility diving
• (4) Deep diving (130 feet/40 meters maximum depth)
• (2) Rescue dives
• (1) Search and Recovery
• (1) Light Salvage
• (1) Exploration and Mapping

(9) Elective Dives
• Beach dives with sloping entry.
• Full Facemask
• Coral Reef
• Diving from small boats.
• Diving from larger boats.
• Limited visibility dives.
• Diving during the night
• River Dives
• Cold Water Dives (Dry Suit)
• Dives to 30 – 100 feet.
• Search and recovery
• Light salvage and recovery
• Hunting and collecting
• Exploration and underwater mapping
• Non-penetration wreck diving
• Observation and data collection
• Diving in surf or currents
• Altitude diving

After a minimum of 36 dives and approx 100 hours of training you are ready to dive unsupervised. You might compare this with the duration of some other courses.
 

k11dorf

Registered
Messages
42
Reaction score
0
Location
Key Largo, FL
# of dives
5000 - ∞
About a recent Scuba Diving Magazine:



I found it somewhat disappointing. It focused almost exclusively on theoretical knowledge, and completely missed the part about spending time in the water.

Sure, classroom and theory are important - long term.

But if one instructor requires 8 hours in a pool and two dives before certification, and another 12 hours and four dives for the same class size, you can tell which course will produce the best divers without even looking at the classroom content.

From my article: "There is no question the divers of the 21st century have enjoyed a cultural shift to independent study and online learning. Rather than bemoan the lessening of time in the classroom, instructors should embrace the additional time it provides, to teach where it is most valuable: in the water. Properly used, today’s modular training can maximize aquatic proficiency while still maintaining academic validity."

Please also understand that we are limited by length of the feature and editorial control as to what makes the final copy...and it was pitched by Scuba Diving Mag as a theoretical article, not a discussion on which water skills should be taught...
 

OldNSalty

Contributor
Messages
2,364
Reaction score
820
Location
Just this side of paradise.
# of dives
200 - 499
So what if there are no other 2 star divers around? I mean, I like some of the ideas that are presented there but would a PADI AOW diver do if no 2-star diver could be found?

Do other agencies and charters hold you to that rule? I guess it depends a lot on the integrity of the student.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/teric/

Top Bottom