Certification is costly

[Aura]

Speaking for myself, yes, they are.

Can you really blame them when so many dive shops systematically scam new divers and force the most expensive equipment on them that they can get away with? I'm not doing business with three out of four local dive shops because they're not nearly as interested in giving useful customer service as they are in their own immediate profit. It's honestly a bit discouraging to see such a total lack of integrity in the diving industry.

Are new divers that stupid.

This kind of arrogance doesn't help much either. But it seems like a lot of older divers have forgotten that they weren't world class on day one themselves.

 

[boulderjohn]

It's honestly a bit discouraging to see such a total lack of integrity in the diving industry.

There is an old joke here in the United States. Question: How can you tell if a car salesman is lying? Answer: The lips are moving.

It happens anywhere involving sales. Anywhere. Salespeople are paid for getting customers to buy what they sell, not what someone else sells.

There is also the matter that the salesperson may not know any better. I remember going into stores in the early days of personal computing and asking advice from the salespeople and realizing I knew more than they did. That is absolutely true in scuba. By far most of the people I have known working the retail floor of a scuba shop simply do not have the knowledge to provide expert advice.

 

[Aura]

Salespeople are paid for getting customers to buy what they sell, not what someone else sells.

They only managed to push away at least this customer who was eager to spend some money on quality equipment. I went to one of the dive shops I'm never going to set foot in again, and when I wanted to buy the apeks regulators they had on the shelf, they kept insisting that I should instead get a twice as expensive non-environmentally sealed piston regulator (I specifically said I wanted it for cold water diving).

I saw there was a job opening at one of these dive shops. 3+ years of sales experience required. Scuba and snorkeling experience a plus, but not required. The priorities are all wrong in my opinion.

 

[Eric802]

Speaking for myself, yes, they are.

I purchased a full set of gear soon after certification, doing what I thought was a reasonable amount of research. Because I had no way of knowing the depth of knowledge needed to make a truly intelligent decision, my supposed intelligent decisions were actually made from the peak of what is called "Mount Stupid" in Dunning-Kruger terms.

It turns out that some of my purchases were not that bad, but that was strictly luck. Once I knew a little more, for example, I got rid of the fins and got others. But I was still on Mount Stupid. I wish I had those fins now--they were way better than the ones I bought to replace them.

I did the same when I was first certified in 1988. I used the shop's gear for certification (included in the cost) and then bought the full kit of gear from the same shop. I was in college at the time and had the cash from a summer job. Pre-internet, comparison shopping was a lot harder. The stuff I bought turned out to be house-brand gear from the shop (Berry Scuba, outside Chicago) and while it was probably decent entry-level stuff, I probably never really got enough use out of it to justify the cost.

I'm about to do the ReActivate thing after being out of diving for 20 years, so this time I'll be a little smarter, hopefully, about any purchases.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

It’s very difficult for a new diver to know what type of gear might suit them best.
This is why buying used can be very challenging, they do not have the personal knowledge yet and experience to know.
Sites like this help for sure, but there is also a danger of overwhelm and the newbie getting their head spun around throwing them into a lot of confusion with dozens of opinions.
If they go through their LDS then they risk being oversold on everything, as @boulderjohn stated, they are more interested in profits than the best interest of the diver and their budget.

Looking back at my first purchase, I could probably been happy with a basic MK2 and a couple of R195’s instead of a MK20 and an Air2
The Air2 was all the rage then and all the divemasters used them. I thought this must be the best it gets so I got one, not knowing that the shop made them wear all the stuff they wanted new divers to buy.
The shop did carry lower end brands like Oceanic but they steered me towards Scubapro. I did ask about the MK2 and they said it was only for warm vacation divers diving in benign conditions and it wouldn’t work up on our coast. Besides, the MK2 wouldn’t provide enough flow to operate the Air2 (which I know now all of this is utter BS!).

When I looked at BC’s, I could have been fine in a lower end jacket not knowing then that I would be changed out in a year. They sold me on the most expensive tech wanabee BC because I was a big guy and big guys needed a bigger better BC than others (flatter flatter). Besides, cheaper BC’s wouldn’t work up on our coast because they didn’t have enough lift and were not heavy duty enough (another line of complete bull crap!) I could have easily used a regular mid range jacket no problem. The salesman purposely stood in front of the cheaper jackets to block the view and faced the expensive BC to present it with a clear visual shot.

So the point is, you have to be really careful who you listen to.
I can’t recommend enough doing a lot of local dives first with rental or borrowed gear with some local mentors (if you’re lucky enough to have both available).
That would even get you enough experience to possibly know what type of gear to look for used.

A good rule of thumb is: The gear doesn’t make the diver, the diver gets good enough to make use of any gear.

 

[Celt]

his kind of arrogance doesn't help much either. But it seems like a lot of older divers have forgotten that they weren't world class on day one themselves.

Go back and read the posts before making judgments on people. I’m the one saying new divers are capable of buying used diving gear and don’t always need to buy new.

 

[Celt]

Speaking for myself, yes, they are.

I purchased a full set of gear soon after certification, doing what I thought was a reasonable amount of research. Because I had no way of knowing the depth of knowledge needed to make a truly intelligent decision, my supposed intelligent decisions were actually made from the peak of what is called "Mount Stupid" in Dunning-Kruger terms.

All the more reason to buy used cheap gear starting off.

 

[Still Kicking]

All the more reason to buy used cheap gear starting off.

I have come to the conclusion that there are some people you just have to allow to make bad decisions.

 

[Celt]

There’s only one piece of dive gear that needs to be bought new, A made to measure dry suit. Everything else can be bought used.

 

[boulderjohn]

All the more reason to buy used cheap gear starting off.

...because from the peak of Mount Stupid you know enough to select the right used gear?