Certification is costly

[James79]

New divers don't know how to evaluate equipment, whether it's still viable or needs extensive repair.

I think that if someone comes to ScubaBoard asking about gear, we can step up and offer to help evaluate if something is a good deal or not. I try to do that on a local level, but if you don't get invited to the conversation there's not much to be done.

Respectfully,

James

 

[Marie13]

I still haven't bought my own diving gear. Got certified back in '98 in the US with rental gear, all included in the price of the course.

I stopped diving for 10 years or so a few years after getting certified. Had I put a lot of money into buying gear early on, it would have been wasted.

I've only recently gotten a dive computer and will probably buy my own mask, just because it's nice to have. Might end up getting all the necessary gear eventually. But it has never been an issue not having any. The more you dive the more it makes sense to invest in things.

All my three kids are OW certified. I was sure my eldest was going to be a keen diver, but she has had a lot of ear issues diving over several years, and that has put her off of it. My middle child doesn't absolutely love diving and only the youngest has turned out to be a regular, enthusiastic and a very skilful diver. You just never know early on how keen you will be after a while.

So you don’t even own your own mask? Clear difference between local and vacation divers.

 

[Celt]

New divers don't know how to evaluate equipment, whether it's still viable or needs extensive repair.

Why, basic diving gear for a new diver is so complicated? Could they buy a used car?

 

[Celt]

Absolutely! Here are some of the costly used purchases i see on a regular basis:

Regs from out of business companies like Dacor for which parts are no longer made.

Regs from companies like Oceanic where the plastic purge covers have deteriorated to the point where they crumble when depressed, and parts are backordered for six months or more.

BCs that have supposedly never been dove where the elbow shears off from the bladder with minimal effort.

BCs that are too big or too small for the user, inappropriate lift for the diving they plan and worn out Velcro weight retention pockets.

Computers like Suunto that have bad depth sensors and are stuck in eternal deco.

Drysuits that need new zippers/valves/seals/extensive seam repair and after hundreds of dollars of work still fit like crap.

Pre 1990 aluminum tanks that virtually no shop will touch.

Wetsuits so old that the neoprene is dried out, stiff and permanently compressed.

It's depressing to tell people who think they got a great deal that they have wasted their money. I hate doing it.

I love a deal as much as anyone but when gear packages start at under $800 and come with a warranty and free service it makes little sense to buy used unless you really know how to evaluate what you are getting.

Sadly, some of the people who learn they bought junk try to recoup their losses by selling it on Craigslist to the next unsuspecting diver.

Do a bit of research, would you buy new without checking.

 

[broncobowsher]

Do a bit of research, would you buy new without checking.

Just about any entry level new car will be okay. The trouble is buying a used car and not knowing that manufacturer is out of business, That the transmission is bad and it costs more than the car is worth, or paying near full new car price not realizing it is only worth 10% of that and they could have a new car for what they paid for junk.

 

[Still Kicking]

People think that shops are out to exploit new divers and while there are some bad apples, most are not.

I gave customers a full rundown of gear choices, pros and cons, based on my realworld experience and let the customer make their decision depending on what they can afford. I tell people not to buy something they dont need as often as i recommend something. I could push higher end gear but i know the customer will figure out they got stuff they didn't need and the store will lose a potential long term customer.

On the other hand, if a customer buys gear that fits their needs and budget, they get a price guarantee, warranty, free service in the future and i go to bat with the manufacturer if there's ever a problem with gear. On top of that, the profit margin helps support the shop's loss leaders like air fills and continuing education.

But so many new divers think they are fully qualified to buy used gear and know everything there is to know.

 

[Celt]

Just about any entry level new car will be okay. The trouble is buying a used car and not knowing that manufacturer is out of business, That the transmission is bad and it costs more than the car is worth, or paying near full new car price not realizing it is only worth 10% of that and they could have a new car for what they paid for junk.

Do a bit of research before buying. Are new divers that stupid.

 

[DiveProKoko]

So what is the consensus-- Do more (most?) places charge main equipment rental fees for OW courses (including making it part of the overall course fee), or do more (most) let the students use this stuff free?

At my shop, and pretty much all the others in the area, rental gear (including wetsuits, etc) for pool and OW sessions are included in the class price, which is $400 US. We do require/encourage them to buy their own mask, fins and snorkel for the course before they go to OW and we provide opportunities for them to demo gear during pool sessions so they can make a good choice as to what works best for them before they buy. So, at least where I live, that's the norm and it's a pretty fair price.

 

[boulderjohn]

Do a bit of research before buying. Are new divers that stupid.

Speaking for myself, yes, they are.

I purchased a full set of gear soon after certification, doing what I thought was a reasonable amount of research. Because I had no way of knowing the depth of knowledge needed to make a truly intelligent decision, my supposed intelligent decisions were actually made from the peak of what is called "Mount Stupid" in Dunning-Kruger terms.

It turns out that some of my purchases were not that bad, but that was strictly luck. Once I knew a little more, for example, I got rid of the fins and got others. But I was still on Mount Stupid. I wish I had those fins now--they were way better than the ones I bought to replace them.

 

[boulderjohn]

Before they went to the dark side that I described earlier and started consciously manipulating buyers into getting the gear with the best markup, the first shop where I worked honestly and truly tried to educate buyers on the pros and cons of different choices. The shop sold jacket BCDs, back inflation BCDs, and BP/Ws, so it really didn't matter to the retail staff what the customer bought after they walked around the floor and talked about the pros and cons of each.

I do not doubt that they thought they were being completely objective in what they told the customers, but the customers bought nearly 100% jacket BCDs. It was so much so that I heard one wonder why they even had the others on the floor. Why? Because 100% of the retail staff used jacket BCDs themselves, and no matter how hard they may have tried, that bias came through to the customers.

There have been many studies on this. In one in particular, even when reading from prepared text, the speaker's beliefs were somehow subtly communicated to the audience.