Certification and levels for PADI

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twatto

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New to diving.
Wanted to know about PADI certification levels and diver levels. I have found the concept of being able to obtain an advanced OW certification after only 12-or-so dives is a bit weird.
Many of the dive guide books specifiy diver experience to be either beginner / intermediate / advanced / expert : they all tend to mention different types of certification, dives, etc.
What would be the best guide to the type of qualification a diver would have : I'm sure an OW diver with >100 dives is far more advanced than an AOW with only 15 dives.
 
Is not really the best name for it more an experience course. It will introduce you and give you a taste of various areas of diving such as deep, night, navigation and so on.
You can then expand on those areas that intrest you through the specialty courses.
 
"Is not really the best name for it more an experience course."

True, and I believe it was renamed "Adventures in Diving," but that doesn't really address his question.

There are two schools of thought, some who believe the PADI (and other agencies) AOW course is a useful way to expand a new diver's experience in a safe comfortable setting. Others believe it is keeping new divers overly dependent on diving with an instructor and is worse than useless. That a real advanced course after the diver has more experience is much more useful.

Your choice.

If you agree with the first concept, take the AOW class. If you agree with the second, take LA County's Advanced Diver program if you live in southern California, otherwise take the YMCA Silver Advanced course. Both are more "advanced" than "adventure."
 
I still don't think the question has been answered. LOL.

I think the question was in reference to guid and wreck books that rate the experience/skill level the author thinks the dive requires.

The ratings gives to describe the difficulty of a dive in those books does not correspond in any way to a specific agencies certification levels. A 130 ft deep wreck in cold dark water with strong current might be listed as an advanced dive but they don't mean AOW they mean a diver with experience and training appropriate for that environment.
 
Walter once bubbled...
<snip>

There are two schools of thought, some who believe the PADI (and other agencies) AOW course is a useful way to expand a new diver's experience in a safe comfortable setting. Others believe it is keeping new divers overly dependent on diving with an instructor and is worse than useless. That a real advanced course after the diver has more experience is much more useful.

<snip>


Walter, it's a matter of expectations. AOW was a poor choice of names. What it is *not* intended to do is to make students more dependent on the instructor. What is *is*, i believe, intended to do is to offer beginning divers a little more experience under supervision and to expand boundaries somewhat with the intention to prepare a beginner for diving *without* supervision. For the most part this is clearly what I see happening around me.

Although I'm not as cynical as you are, I do agree that it isn't a real skills course. THere are some skills and theory offered but it's limited in scope and if one *expects* to learn a lot in AOW then it will result in disappointment. At best, I see the AOW as "the rest" of OW and with a decent instructor you'll have a confidence builder.

What I believe is missing from the system is, as you say, a "real" skills course with attention given to imnproving water-skills and evaluation done on the quality of the skills performed, not just on the abiltity to comprehend how it should be done. The bouyancy specialty (to pick an example) is like all the other PADI courses; it offers the basics of theory, skills, and possible risks, you make a couple of dives to see it once in practice and then it leaves it to the student to go out and learn it. Practice shows that student's aren't learnihng it. DM's who are still flapping around like wounded ducks tryihng to keep their bouyancy under control should never happen. Is this is the sort of "advanced" course you're talking about?

R..
 
"What it is *not* intended to do is to make students more dependent on the instructor."

I agree, but that is what often happens.

"At best, I see the AOW as "the rest" of OW"

A good idea, but it doesn't contain what PADI leaves out of the OW course.
 
Walter once bubbled...
A good idea, but it doesn't contain what PADI leaves out of the OW course.

You mean rescue? IMHO, which I'm sure many disagree with, all of the skills provided from OW to Rescue should be required before a c-card is issued.

James
 
Diver0001 once bubbled...


Walter, it's a matter of expectations. AOW was a poor choice of names. What it is *not* intended to do is to make students more dependent on the instructor. What is *is*, i believe, intended to do is to offer beginning divers a little more experience under supervision and to expand boundaries somewhat with the intention to prepare a beginner for diving *without* supervision. For the most part this is clearly what I see happening around me.

I took my PADI AOW about 15 years ago, and that was *precisely* my intent. In fact, that's how I looked at it from the beginning, and planned it from the beginning -- straight out of basic into AOW.

Although I'm not as cynical as you are, I do agree that it isn't a real skills course. THere are some skills and theory offered but it's limited in scope and if one *expects* to learn a lot in AOW then it will result in disappointment. At best, I see the AOW as "the rest" of OW and with a decent instructor you'll have a confidence builder.

What I believe is missing from the system is, as you say, a "real" skills course with attention given to imnproving water-skills and evaluation done on the quality of the skills performed, not just on the abiltity to comprehend how it should be done. The bouyancy specialty (to pick an example) is like all the other PADI courses; it offers the basics of theory, skills, and possible risks, you make a couple of dives to see it once in practice and then it leaves it to the student to go out and learn it.

Hmmm. Tend to disagree -- there's lots of continuing training out there, from the buoyancy specialty you mention, to IANTD stuff, to DIRF. What's missing from the system is a structured way to engage in safer practice.

There seems to be a contradiction in a lot of the discussions -- at the same time, some say "basic isn't enough" and "people should go practice skills". I believe that most new divers realize they aren't competent to go out on their own, either don't have a buddy or the buddy is equally inexperienced, and have no ready means of continuing self-study. Three strikes, they're out -- there's the 9 out of 10 that never dive again after the first year.

Back when I took AOW, I got exactly what I was expecting of it: 20% here's-some-exposure-to-interesting-skills, and 80% get-wet-with-an-experienced-diver-keeping-an-eye-on-me. Unless I wanted to take AOW again and again, there's no good "supervised play" option available.

In fact, there's an idea: we talk on and on about how the LDS needs to differentiate itself. Suppose an LDS said "after you take our AOW, you can come back, space permitting, as much as you want and re-participate in the skills dives." Or "We will, every weekend, have an instructor at popular dive site X. Take AOW from us, and you can show up for $5. The instructor will poll the group to see if there are any specific skills people want to work on, and then lead the dive." I think those would be _huge_ differentiators.

--Laird
 
"You mean rescue?"

That's merely a drop in the bucket. At least it is possible to get those skills in a later class. I'm talking about more fundamental skills.
 
twatto once bubbled...
being able to obtain an advanced OW certification after only 12-or-so dives is a bit weird.
Many of the dive guide books specifiy diver experience to be either beginner / intermediate / advanced / expert : they all tend to mention different types of certification, dives, etc.
What would be the best guide to the type of qualification a diver would have : I'm sure an OW diver with >100 dives is far more advanced than an AOW with only 15 dives.

You just found the best guide. Yourself. You're obviously questioning it, so you have just set yourself apart from other divers. Am I ready, am I comfy doing this, ect. Most people get the cert and think they can just go dive wherever...I did, then I got smart and realized that if I'm used to 60ft, 70ft might be ok with a buddy that's done it before and that I trust. 100 ft is probably not a good idea till i work up to it over a few more dives. But back to the point, be cautious and safe-and it appears you are- and pay attn, and you'll be the MUCH better diver.
 

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