CCR Selection priorities

[-JD-]

Agreed. I was pre-warned about the leaking so I always keep the isolators closed but it really bothers me. It feels like I’m setting myself up to make a mistake. Though hopefully my caution of the manifold being closed will keep me attentive to it.

There is an individual isolator on each valve. They tend to leak helium if ithey’re left open.

No RB experience, but following to learn.

Is this one of those cases where Vindicator knobs (if there is a version compatible with the LOLAs) might be a smart exception (no-negatives, belt & suspenders) to the gear solution to a skills issue "prohibition"?

 

[helodriver87]

No RB experience, but following to learn.

Is this one of those cases where Vindicator knobs (if there is a version compatible with the LOLAs) might be a smart exception (no-negatives, belt & suspenders) to the gear solution to a skills issue "prohibition"?

I'm not sure if they're compatible, but I don't think it would make a huge difference. The on site check is stickered to my backplate and laminated in my parts box. Step 4 is "Open All Valves". Additionally, predive checks include a full flow check from O2 to inflation. So there are two opportunities where it absolutely shouldn't be missed if you're following the steps. The only other place to be careful is getting fills, but standard doubles procedure applies there.

 

[rddvet]

No RB experience, but following to learn.

Is this one of those cases where Vindicator knobs (if there is a version compatible with the LOLAs) might be a smart exception (no-negatives, belt & suspenders) to the gear solution to a skills issue "prohibition"?

I doubt the vindicators are compatible. I’ll be honest the valves are a little funky. There are two isolators and two normal one/off valves. I did something I’ve never done before and took a gold sharpie and put an arrow in the on direction pointing to the word on. It is a temporary mental reminder while I get used to the system(I rarely dive it’s that way) that can be removed with alcohol. On my checklist/in-water checklist is a note of ensuring all valves are on. Obviously at that point I can’t see the sharpie, but on the surface it’s just one added insurance policy. I know I know the proper directions to turn on and off in my head, but it’s a very new addition to my fairly new rebreather setup and I am being extra anal to not make a mistake.

 

[flymolo]

I find the knobs on the lola valves very easy to turn and can roll off. I had a boat anchor line roll one off as I was descending down to a wreck and not being mindful of keeping clear of the line. I've been thinking of changing the handwheels to the older-style plastic knobs though I'm not sure where to find 4 of them (pic related).

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[PfcAJ]

I find the knobs on the lola valves very easy to turn and can roll off. I had a boat anchor line roll one off as I was descending down to a wreck and not being mindful of keeping clear of the line. I've been thinking of changing the handwheels to the older-style plastic knobs though I'm not sure where to find 4 of them (pic related).

View attachment 616913 .

They are like tonka truck tires. Gotta check em often.

 

[flymolo]

They are like tonka truck tires. Gotta check em often.

For sure. Been making a point to flow check at various points throughout a dive now. It has also helped me get used to the location and orientation of the two isolator valves.

 

[sea_ledford]

Having to know which way to turn a valve by muscle memory in order to keep you alive seems like some low hanging fruit for a human factors fix. This applies for open water up to the highest tech levels. Yes we SHOULD know which way to turn valves, but swapping between single tanks, doubles with isolators, side mount with one left valve and one right valve, and a CCR with inverted tanks... add in some potentially life threatening stress and you have a recipe for disaster. We make it even worse with the potential for shaming for making it easier to tell which way is open (see @rddvet comments about cleaning off the drawn on arrows) rather than just knowing.

How many people have died because of a partially open tank? Or only had half the gas you thought you had because the ioslator wasn't open during filling?

Vindicators seem like a decent idea, but are useless if you can't see them, and more useless once they break and are only correct 50% of the time. There has to be some sort of tactile direction indicator option. Sharp one way and smooth the other? Chevrons pointing toward open? There has to be some stupid obvious way to apply directionality to the knobs. How about changing everything to ball valves that are just open or closed and you can tell by touch which one it is? Replace round handwheels with oval or rectangular handwheels? Anything is better than what we have now.

Sorry, off topic rant off...

 

[helodriver87]

Valves on the right roll on, valves on the left roll off (regardless of tank orientation), and isolators open when rotated towards the right post. I don't know that mechanical or tactile fixes would help. You just have to turn it towards the appropriate off direction then back until it stops to check it.

 

[kensuf]

except for the whole selective leaking of helium thing

Yeah, I close the manifold when not in use.

 

[kensuf]

The old RB80 style manifold is a pain in the ass.

you’ve gotta cut and tap an isolator, thread in swagelok fittings, cut and bend stainless tubing, press on the fittings, angle everything just right, mess up the length and have to cut tubing again, go back to the pneumatics store and get more fittings cuz you buggered one up, assemble again, leak test, drain and reassemble because there’s a baby leak, assemble again, everything holds, whack the ceiling, bend the hose, looks like doodoo, start at the 1st line again and do it all over.

ok that was kind of therapeutic. Big sigh of relief.

lola manifold is way better even if I have to close and open the isolator.

Don't hold back man, let it all out. Most of us have to pay a "professional" $100/hr to listen, but we're here for you for free.