CCR and OC Buddies

[gcbryan]

Not much you can do?? Give him your primary, just might save his life..

Yes, there is that. I just meant that in many cases you might not know that they were having a problem or what it was until they passed out. In other words I wouldn't know if they had too little or too much O2, Co2 build up or whatever.

If they ask or if I see them having problems of course I would donate the hose.

I'm thinking that CCR diver's even when diving with another CCR diver are probably more like solo divers than would be the case on OC for the reasons stated above.

 

[Rainer]

And if *HE* had a problem, do you think you could have managed the situation? Could you have brought him up if he'd toxed / passed out? Do you know how to dump the loop/counterlungs/wing/etc? Have you extensively practiced these rescue skills? Do you understand the basic operating procedures of the rebreather? Could you tell if something was off at a glance?

Sure, great, he can donate to you (which is no where near as clean as on OC, BTW), but how much of a true buddy/teammate would you have been if his unit had gone **** up? How much of a team were you?

I'm OC and have buddied with a CCR diver once; it was a recreational MDL dive and the CCR diver was on an MC90. In our case, the OOG response is almost exactly the same as it would have been had both divers been on OC. We had the same gas (I had 32%, his back-mounted dil was 32%), he had a long hose from the diluent clipped to the right chest d-ring to donate in the event of an OOG, and he could switch to on-board bailout, his long hose, or remove the loop to accept my long hose if needed. Having never dived with a CCR buddy before, it was good to know that mixed teams ARE possible with certain setups.

 

[Kevin Carlisle]

The rule of thumb I use that I was taught by a CCR instructor is if they act different than normal they take my hose no questions asked if I try and give it to them. I have not had to do it but I often wonder just how difficult it will be to judge that.

Yes, there is that. I just meant that in many cases you might not know that they were having a problem or what it was until they passed out. In other words I wouldn't know if they had too little or too much O2, Co2 build up or whatever.

If they ask or if I see them having problems of course I would donate the hose.

I'm thinking that CCR diver's even when diving with another CCR diver are probably more like solo divers than would be the case on OC for the reasons stated above.

 

[crd_kats]

Having dove with a CCR diver and I on OC, I didn't realize how lacking I was in knowledge in case the schit hit the fan. My only consolation was we weren't in an overhead environment, I could donate, and he was carrying bailout for me.

Did we cover a predive checklist on his CCR? No. Did I think to ask? No. Were we stupid? Yes. Were we solo divers? To a certain extent, but we were buddies as well and there for each other. Will I do it again without a thorough run through on the equipment and worst case scenarios? Hell no.

 

[Ghost.Diver]

The rule of thumb I use that I was taught by a CCR instructor is if they act different than normal they take my hose no questions asked if I try and give it to them. I have not had to do it but I often wonder just how difficult it will be to judge that.

Since both of my "primary" cave buddies have both gone to CCR, and I am still on OC, this was a concern for me as well. As CD said, prior to the dive, including the long dive to the site as well as at the site, we go over procedures for what to do when and how.

We go over basic procedures but both of them indicated to me that if their actions seem out of the ordinary, then I am to donate without question and they are to take my donated without question.

I have since also gone to a sidemount system so donating now is a simple handoff of a bottle.

 

[Ghost.Diver]

As another note to this, I would only feel comfortable diving with my two standard normal buddies in this situation. Nothing against any other CCR, but I would not jump into a buddy situation with anyone else on CCR even if they had the same unit.

I understand their gear, I understand what the handsets are saying, and I feel that I can read their HUD is needed. Most important is that I understand their "diving style"

 

[Cave Diver]

I understand their gear, I understand what the handsets are saying, and I feel that I can read their HUD is needed. Most important is that I understand their "diving style"

I seem to recall *someone* was supposed to learn how to break down and clean our gear too...

 

[Gombessa]

Sure, great, he can donate to you (which is no where near as clean as on OC, BTW), but how much of a true buddy/teammate would you have been if his unit had gone **** up?

Simple answer? Had he gone completely unresponsive for whatever reason, his being on CCR wouldn't affect his odds one bit (read: I'm not putting any money on MY unconscious diver rescue skills, OC or otherwise ). But whether it's an unconscious diver rescue or a problem requiring going off the loop, the emergency response on my part would be the same: you're going off the loop and getting a working regulator, and we're (theoretically) making a slow, open-airway ascent to the surface. I know to dump from the lungs, but after doing that I'm pretty much ignoring everything but the wing inflator on your rig once you're on the long hose.

Of course, my not having intimate familiarity with the CCR is a huge liability that can't be ignored, but my point is that some designs seem better suited for mixed-team responses than others, and having seen this and some other CCR setups, I think that goes a long way. If there is a problem, the response is familiar and anticipated.

 

[Rainer]

If you're that uncomfortable with your OC rescue skills, I'd suggest practicing them. Seriously.

If you plan to continue diving with someone on a RB, I'd suggest practicing similar rescues. Seriously. Until you've tried, you have NO idea how different your response needs to be in each case. Again, only his response to your issues is "familiar and anticipated". Sounds like he'd be SOL if he had problems that weren't easily solved by him being able to bailout (to your gas or his own). Hardly sounds like unified team diving...

I try to minimize my liability (to myself and to my teammates) while diving. To each his own, though.

Simple answer? Had he gone completely unresponsive for whatever reason, his being on CCR wouldn't affect his odds one bit (read: I'm not putting any money on MY unconscious diver rescue skills, OC or otherwise ). But whether it's an unconscious diver rescue or a problem requiring going off the loop, the emergency response on my part would be the same: you're going off the loop and getting a working regulator, and we're (theoretically) making a slow, open-airway ascent to the surface. I know to dump from the lungs, but after doing that I'm pretty much ignoring everything but the wing inflator on your rig once you're on the long hose.

Of course, my not having intimate familiarity with the CCR is a huge liability that can't be ignored, but my point is that some designs seem better suited for mixed-team responses than others, and having seen this and some other CCR setups, I think that goes a long way. If there is a problem, the response is familiar and anticipated.

 

[Kevin Carlisle]

To me it was a great learning experience. It is or can be common here to have a mix team. I think if you are about to do a mix dive and your CCR buddy doesnt go through a good " what to do " briefing then you need to call the dive. He already has issues by not being a good buddy IMO..

Since both of my "primary" cave buddies have both gone to CCR, and I am still on OC, this was a concern for me as well. As CD said, prior to the dive, including the long dive to the site as well as at the site, we go over procedures for what to do when and how.

We go over basic procedures but both of them indicated to me that if their actions seem out of the ordinary, then I am to donate without question and they are to take my donated without question.

I have since also gone to a sidemount system so donating now is a simple handoff of a bottle.