Cayman Aggressor: When does it become too much?

[boulderjohn]

We booked a trip on the Cayman Aggressor for May, 2020. When the trip was canceled due to Covid, we got a voucher for a future trip--no refund was possible. Of course, that was true of everyone who scheduled a trip during the Covid shutdown, which is well into its second year with still no sign that the Caymans are going to allow people to enter the country without a quarantine.

People with vouchers have been rebooking their trips for dates that they hope the Caymans will be open, and there have been many months of rebooked trips that have canceled again and then rebooked again. Our current rebooking is for mid-November, but it is looking like that will not happen. Based on our experience getting the November rebooking, if we wait until it will be officially canceled again due to the Covid shutdown, it will be at least a year, probably much more than a year, before we will be able to get booked because so many people are trying to redeem their vouchers.

As was explained to us, if we decide to cancel the planned trip because we fear the shutdown will still be on, we lose our money. Aggressor, on the other hand, can cancel a day ahead of time with no penalty.

So is there any limit to how long Aggressor can hold onto our money, or are we prisoners of this organization?

 

[Wookie]

We booked a trip on the Cayman Aggressor for May, 2020. When the trip was canceled due to Covid, we got a voucher for a future trip--no refund was possible. Of course, that was true of everyone who scheduled a trip during the Covid shutdown, which is well into its second year with still no sign that the Caymans are going to allow people to enter the country without a quarantine.

People with vouchers have been rebooking their trips for dates that they hope the Caymans will be open, and there have been many months of rebooked trips that have canceled again and then rebooked again. Our current rebooking is for mid-November, but it is looking like that will not happen. Based on our experience getting the November rebooking, if we wait until it will be officially canceled again due to the Covid shutdown, it will be at least a year, probably much more than a year, before we will be able to get booked because so many people are trying to redeem their vouchers.

As was explained to us, if we decide to cancel the planned trip because we fear the shutdown will still be on, we lose our money. Aggressor, on the other hand, can cancel a day ahead of time with no penalty.

So is there any limit to how long Aggressor can hold onto our money, or are we prisoners of this organization?

I have no dog in the fight, or any real knowledge of how to fight this, but can your credit card company help? What about your airline tickets? I know mine (on Delta) expire in November or something.

I intend to use them before that, but who knows what the government of the CI will do. @Divetech Cayman is a friend of mine and they are beside themselves over the situation. A good friend and co-worker was recruited to be the chef on the CAIV and can’t get in the country without quarantine.

 

[boulderjohn]

The only money that is on the line is being held by Aggressor. Everyone else we had paid gave full refunds, understanding that the Covid problems are not our fault. Everyone else, including the airlines, seems interested in having us return as customers once we get past Covid. The only company that does not care that we will certainly never use them again and certainly never recommend them to anyone is Aggressor.

We were planning to stay with DiveTech in our first trip (we are planning 10 days on land prior to the boat), but that is no longer possible. With our current plans, our land-based portion will dive with DiveTech but stay elsewhere. We have prepaid that lodging, but the owner will refund in full if the trip falls through. Some people really are quite reasonable about this.

 

[Wookie]

The only money that is on the line is being held by Aggressor. Everyone else we had paid gave full refunds, understanding that the Covid problems are not our fault. Everyone else, including the airlines, seems interested in having us return as customers once we get past Covid. The only company that does not care that we will certainly never use them again and certainly never recommend them to anyone is Aggressor.

We were planning to stay with DiveTech in our first trip (we are planning 10 days on land prior to the boat), but that is no longer possible. With our current plans, our land-based portion will dive with DiveTech but stay elsewhere. We have prepaid that lodging, but the owner will refund in full if the trip falls through. Some people really are quite reasonable about this.

Yes. I sold them the Spree. I have strongly held opinions about the company.

 

[O-ring]

My experience with Aggressor was the same. I booked boat diving with three different operators, a villa to stay in before my Aggressor boarding, flights with two different airlines and then my liveaboard with Aggressor. Of all those entities, Aggressor was the only one who absolutely would not budge on their refund policy. When they cancelled my original sailing due to COVID they issued me a voucher that was non-transferable and non-extendable and stuck to their guns on both of those stipulations as well. I ended up going and had a fabulous time, but will definitely consider their policies and handling of the whole COVID thing the next time I book. I am already looking into booking my next trip and have found that other operations have much more reasonable policies around rebooking, cancellation, COVID/interruptions, etc.. As you described in your original post, the one-sidedness of their cancellation policy is a tough pill to swallow. I don't like the idea of being forced to either roll the dice or buy way overpriced "cancel for any reason" trip insurance just to hedge against Aggressor's policies.

Another +1 for DiveTech. I dove with them the last time I was on Cayman and they were great.

 

[drrich2]

Great topic and I hope you will keep up posted on how it works out. I've had 3 very good Aggressor live-aboard trips, but never had to deal with this situation. A few thoughts, drawing on another thread that delved into the live-aboards-in-a-pandemic situation:

1.) Many live-aboards likely use money received for future trips to pay current expenses, the assumption being when your trip comes up, people booking farther into the future will maintain the cash flow going forward. Reminds me a bit of how Social Security funding in the U.S. works. This business model is very vulnerable to disruption when operations have to be cancelled awhile, and if there is a 'run on the bank,' to borrow a term from the banking industry, the business doesn't have the cash on hand to issue refunds on demand...even if it wants to.

The conservative in me doesn't like that business model, but if I understand correctly, it's pervasive, and presumably market forces make it rather obligatory.

Which led to the far a number of operations might declare bankruptcy (or just disappear) - and the money paid to them would also disappear.

2.) So how a live-aboard business handles this 'rock and a hard place' situation is key. I intensely dislike being denied a refund when they cancel through no fault of mine, but if I accept that 'It is what it is,' a distasteful market reality, then what are my options?

Of all those entities, Aggressor was the only one who absolutely would not budge on their refund policy. When they cancelled my original sailing due to COVID they issued me a voucher that was non-transferable and non-extendable and stuck to their guns on both of those stipulations as well.

I don't like that. I think at a minimum it should be extendable, as availability may be limited (or non-existent) due to people rescheduling their cancelled bookings, and not everyone can get off from work for just any time. I also think the reschedule should be price-protected.

The option to transfer to a different both in the corporate fleet would be a nice perk...thought I'm not sure it's obligatory.

For comparison, I think it was late last year I booked a far distant 'bucket list' trip on a 20% off special for Dec. 2021. Between the downpayment and the interim payment I recently made, I think I've committed around $1,700 so far (no travel arrangements made; that would've been done months ago in a normal year). I still owe over 2 grand, and anticipate around 2 grand in travel expenses (e.g.: airfare, hotels). My booking is for a Siren Fleet boat.

It looks probably my trip will get cancelled due to tourism being shut down. Here's what my dive travel agent told me:

1.) The balance is due in September.
2.) If I reschedule, that will not be price protected. The travel agency intends to meet with the owners of the Fleet, hoping to get a better option.
3.) I asked what if I need to change and they don't have openings left for that window in 2022 (this destination isn't an all-year place) - he said I'll be able to rebook my trip any time between now and 2024.
4.) If I can't find a trip in Dec. 2022, I can use my credit to book any trip aboard the Master, Siren or Blue-O-Two boats.

There are still questions one could ask, such as what if I pushed to cancel rather than wait for them to do it, what if the trip becomes a 'go' so late I can't get flight arrangements to get there, how much advance notice will I get, etc... I dislike that a reschedule isn't price protected; that 20% off was the tie breaker between this and a competitor operation.

This has to be frustrating for working people who have difficulty getting time off approved, especially for time frames over 1 week. Late cancellations can mean having to follow through and take time off when you can't do what you took it off to do. Then you don't have that time later when you need it.

 

[SlugLife]

Right before covid, I had spent about $1k on early-bird tickets to about 6 different local events related to another hobby. Covid hit, and 6/6 of those events canceled with no refunds. 2/6 tried to upload a YouTube video saying that was fulfilling their end of the bargain, which is beyond absurd, because the events were social activates. When I complained about it on local forums people said "but they need the money," to which I could only say "my family and I need the money too". Because I bought the early-bird tickets quite early (and only "saved" about 10% to 15%, lol) it was too late for a charge-back. Supposedly I have credit for the other 4/6, but I still can't use that credit a year later.

As far as I'm concerned, that's a massive violation of trust and theft (or fraud). I might use the credits, when I finally can, but beyond that, I'm never doing business with those individuals or companies. I could sue, but I'd be ostracized and demonized in those communities in a massive way.

So is there any limit to how long Aggressor can hold onto our money, or are we prisoners of this organization?

I'm not familiar with Aggressor. If they simply refuse to give you your money back, you either have to just let that money go, or force them somehow.

• Charge-backs tend to have a time-limit, which you're probably past.
• Your credit-card or bank might have some form of travel-insurance.
• You could sue them. Though that might be challenging based on your locale and their locale.

Finally, I'd say give them negative reviews on multiple websites. It might not get your money back, but it has potential to hit their pocket-book harder than whatever money they've basically stolen from you. I do that not for the purpose of "revenge" but rather on principle, where I don't want theft/scams/etc to be a profitable venture.

 

[tursiops]

I am not an Aggressor fan. I had full-boat charter in the Red Sea, and their boat burned and sank before the trip.
I had great difficulty getting my money back, which only happened (I suspect) because my travel broker -- a big one -- intervened.
Not to mention they way they treated the survivors who were ON the boat when it burned and sank.
No thanks, Aggressor. I have other dive boats I can put people on.

 

[O-ring]

Great topic and I hope you will keep up posted on how it works out. I've had 3 very good Aggressor live-aboard trips, but never had to deal with this situation. A few thoughts, drawing on another thread that delved into the live-aboards-in-a-pandemic situation:

1.) Many live-aboards likely use money received for future trips to pay current expenses, the assumption being when your trip comes up, people booking farther into the future will maintain the cash flow going forward. Reminds me a bit of how Social Security funding in the U.S. works. This business model is very vulnerable to disruption when operations have to be cancelled awhile, and if there is a 'run on the bank,' to borrow a term from the banking industry, the business doesn't have the cash on hand to issue refunds on demand...even if it wants to.

The conservative in me doesn't like that business model, but if I understand correctly, it's pervasive, and presumably market forces make it rather obligatory.

Which led to the far a number of operations might declare bankruptcy (or just disappear) - and the money paid to them would also disappear.

2.) So how a live-aboard business handles this 'rock and a hard place' situation is key. I intensely dislike being denied a refund when they cancel through no fault of mine, but if I accept that 'It is what it is,' a distasteful market reality, then what are my options?



I don't like that. I think at a minimum it should be extendable, as availability may be limited (or non-existent) due to people rescheduling their cancelled bookings, and not everyone can get off from work for just any time. I also think the reschedule should be price-protected.

The option to transfer to a different both in the corporate fleet would be a nice perk...thought I'm not sure it's obligatory.

For comparison, I think it was late last year I booked a far distant 'bucket list' trip on a 20% off special for Dec. 2021. Between the downpayment and the interim payment I recently made, I think I've committed around $1,700 so far (no travel arrangements made; that would've been done months ago in a normal year). I still owe over 2 grand, and anticipate around 2 grand in travel expenses (e.g.: airfare, hotels). My booking is for a Siren Fleet boat.

It looks probably my trip will get cancelled due to tourism being shut down. Here's what my dive travel agent told me:

1.) The balance is due in September.
2.) If I reschedule, that will not be price protected. The travel agency intends to meet with the owners of the Fleet, hoping to get a better option.
3.) I asked what if I need to change and they don't have openings left for that window in 2022 (this destination isn't an all-year place) - he said I'll be able to rebook my trip any time between now and 2024.
4.) If I can't find a trip in Dec. 2022, I can use my credit to book any trip aboard the Master, Siren or Blue-O-Two boats.

There are still questions one could ask, such as what if I pushed to cancel rather than wait for them to do it, what if the trip becomes a 'go' so late I can't get flight arrangements to get there, how much advance notice will I get, etc... I dislike that a reschedule isn't price protected; that 20% off was the tie breaker between this and a competitor operation.

This has to be frustrating for working people who have difficulty getting time off approved, especially for time frames over 1 week. Late cancellations can mean having to follow through and take time off when you can't do what you took it off to do. Then you don't have that time later when you need it.

Agreed.. I get that they are running a business and can't absorb last minute cancellations and run the boat with berths empty, but in reading some of the fine print in the agreements for some of the other boats I am looking at using they include things like:

- "if you cancel we'll try to book someone else in your spot and if we are successful we'll either refund your money less a $100 rebooking fee or credit you the full amount for a future sailing"
- "if the boat experiences weather or mechanical issues we will issue you a credit or a voucher good for a future voyage in the amount equal to the diving days missed"
- "we help defray the cost of trip insurance by offering you an on board credit in the amount of xxx to use as you wish"
- "storm credits will be issued to guests whose trips are affected by either a named weather event or a mechanical breakdown AND who do not receive compensation from their travel insurance carrier."

There are more examples, but to me those are much more reasonable than "not our problem, you should have bought trip insurance".

 

[tarponchik]

In the USA, you can always use Better Business Bureau or sue them in small business court. But with a foreign based company I do not know.