Cave training - GUE vs. TDI/IANTD (or other)

[Germie]

A lot of decisions taken by agencies are based on money. Nothing more, nothing less. It is just a commercial marketmodell. A lot of people want sidemount, so agencies offer sidemount courses. Same with ccr. And if you offer it too late, people go to another, so you want your part of the market and you start offering it. Nothing wrong with that.
And there is no proof that agencies do it unsafe. Only some agencies are now too late for some divers. They can only sell courses to newer divers.
New agencies come, others change or stop. Just what the market wants.

 

[Subcooled]

Hey guys,

I'm looking into doing cave training (after diving the cenotes in Mexico, see my thread We did our first cenote dives and we're HOOKED)
I've been doing quite a bit of research and have some remaining questions on the agencies in specific. I'm well aware of the importance of the instructor and choosing a good instructor. I also do realize that the agency you pick can have some impact as well. I'm not trying to open up a can of worms here, with this post, but I've got some genuine questions on differences between agencies (I know feelings can run strong on this topic). Could anyone shine a light on my questions:
- What are the pro's or con's of GUE versus TDI and IANTD as an agency (especially related to cave diving)?
- What are the pro's and con's of the different training routes that they offer (e.g. Cave 1, Cave 2 in GUE vs. TDI Introductory Cave Diver and Full cave, etc.).
- Pro's and con's in standards used at these agencies?
- Anything else I didn't think of?

Thanks a lot guys!

In GUE you will join the clone army. In other systems you have some freedom of choice. This comes both with benefits and with drawbacks. In a big project with 100 divers you will want standardization, while on an individual project you might want some freedoms.

No matter which system you will choose, you and you alone will be responsible for your death.
Training is only that. The rest depends on you alone.

 

[LiteHedded]

In GUE you will join the clone army. In other systems you have some freedom of choice. This comes both with benefits and with drawbacks. In a big project with 100 divers you will want standardization, while on an individual project you might want some freedoms.

No matter which system you will choose, you and you alone will be responsible for your death.
Training is only that. The rest depends on you alone.

taking gue cave courses doesnt remove your freedoms. you can do whatever you want

 

[Superlyte27]

I was recently told on this board that you can lose your cert for diving solo with GUE.

I thought it was AJ, but I could be wrong. I asked at EE to confirm and was told the same thing.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

I was recently told on this board that you can lose your cert for diving solo with GUE.

I thought it was AJ, but I could be wrong. I asked at EE to confirm and was told the same thing.

I don't see why anyone would care.

 

[Superlyte27]

Because an expired and non-renewed cave card will keep you out of some pretty popular caves.

 

[rjack321]

I was recently told on this board that you can lose your cert for diving solo with GUE.

I thought it was AJ, but I could be wrong. I asked at EE to confirm and was told the same thing.

Has this actually happened or is this just staff level folks pontificating?

I know lots of people with a GUE (cave or tech) card from the past who dont follow GUE's expectations on gases, or teams (including solo), sidemount, ccrs etc. They have never asked for anyone's card back. GUE instructor's seem to be held to a higher bar here than past students

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Because an expired and non-renewed cave card will keep you out of some pretty popular caves.

Are there expiration dates/non-renewal certifications for non-DIR agencies (RAID, TDI, IANTD, etc.). I do appreciate the need to keep diving at that level. So if a GUE trained diver kept diving prolifically, but after 3 years didn't pay the fee to keep his certification renewed, I don't see if that would matter.

To me the issue is, does a diver keep up their skills to be proficient. That's the main thing that matters.

Personally, I'm out of the water for a while due to the birth of my daughter. When I get back into the water, it will all be about practice, practice, practice Once I am proficient in my skills to the level that I was before my hiatus, then I will dive for fun.

 

[rjack321]

Are there expiration dates/non-renewal certifications for non-DIR agencies (RAID, TDI, IANTD, etc.). .

GUE is the only agency with expiry dates (and a renewal fee)

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

GUE is the only agency with expiry dates (and a renewal fee)

What about UTD/ISE as their roots are in GUE?

I think expirations make sense due to inactivity at a certain level, but not a renewal fee.