Cave Training and Etiquette Real or Imaginary?

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kensuf

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Pete, please add me to the cave instructors forum. I do not wish to be a monitor/moderator, but do wish to be a participant. I am a full cave instructor with tdi (#1206) and naui (#19230).

thanks.
 
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The Chairman

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I have created two forums and two links to those forums. The Cave Instructors Forum is an inter-agency forum open to any and all Cave Instructors. Please join that group by going to Edit User Groups and adding the user groups (one at a time) that apply to you. All instructor level group memberships will be vetted. This forum lives in our Instructor to Instructor Forum and has a link in our Cave Diving Forum. If you are an administrator, officer or representative for any Cave Diving Agency, I would appreciate you volunteering to be a moderator. Please PM me to make that happen.

Access to the Cave Instruction Task Force will be by invitation only. You will have to be nominated by the agency you teach under and be approved by the other members of the group. Obviously, the recommendations made by this group will not be binding and they may or may not be made public as they deem fit. GDI (Rick Murcar), Capt Jim Wyatt and cerich (Chris Richardson) will be the charter members of this group. That means we have representatives from NACD, NAUI and NSS-CDS but still need reps from ANDI, BSAC, IANTD, GUE, NASE, PADI, PSAI, TDI and UTD. Are there any other agencies out there teaching cave diving? If you know any instructors or key people from any of these agencies, please let them know about this initiative.

It should be noted that SB moderators will not be given automatic access to these forums...
 
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Omisson

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I have created two forums and two links to those forums. The Cave Instructors Forum is an inter-agency forum open to any and all Cave Instructors. Please join that group by going to Edit User Groups and adding the user groups (one at a time) that apply to you. All instructor level group memberships will be vetted. This forum lives in our Instructor to Instructor Forum and has a link in our Cave Diving Forum. If you are an administrator, officer or representative for any Cave Diving Agency, I would appreciate you volunteering to be a moderator. Please PM me to make that happen.

Access to the Cave Instruction Task Force will be by invitation only. You will have to be nominated by the agency you teach under and be approved by the other members of the group. Obviously, the recommendations made by this group will not be binding and they may or may not be made public as they deem fit. GDI (Rick Murcar), Capt Jim Wyatt and cerich (Chris Richardson) will be the charter members of this group. That means we have representatives from NSS-CDS and NAUI and still need reps from NACD, PADI and TDI. Are there any other agencies out there teaching cave diving?

It should be noted that SB moderators will not be given automatic access to these forums.

PSAI and IANTD also teach cave

---------- Post added March 15th, 2015 at 02:44 PM ----------

Maybe you want the IUCRR as well?
 

The Chairman

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Maybe you want the IUCRR as well?
Dan, if you or anyone knows any of the principles for any of these agencies that do certify cavers, please, please, please send them a link to this discussion and politely ask them to join us. I have sent a letter to Brian Carney asking for TDI's input this morning.
 

SillyQuestions

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...That means we have representatives from NACD, NAUI and NSS-CDS but still need reps from ANDI, BSAC, IANTD, GUE, PADI, PSAI, TDI and UTD. Are there any other agencies out there teaching cave diving?...

The oldest diving club in the world. Cave Diving Group. Established 1947...

It's worth noting BSAC don't teach cave diving also, leaving it to CDG as no agency really gears towards cave diving in Britain.


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boulderjohn

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victorzamora

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The rules for reporting a poor/unethical/incompetent instructor are pretty universal:
  • Be an eye witness. Hearing from a friend or a friend of a friend just doesn't cut it.
  • Get all the facts you can within reason. You're not the investigator and they may not want to talk to you.
  • Give the facts to the person in charge of that agency's Quality Assurance.
  • Shut up, be patient and let them do their job. This is not the time to go blabbing all over social media what you think happened. Don't be surprised that doing this will make your subsequent reports less and less welcome.

Pete, I tried holding my tongue here....but now I have to say: I did all of this. Multiple times, for multiple agencies. Heck, once I had five separate incidents of CLEARLY standards-breaking dives being conducted on one instructor. Literally, you can go down the line of all of these points and I had every duck imaginable in a row. Still, nothing happened. I had dates, instructor AND student names, and I EVEN HAD VIDEO of a few events. Nothing ever came of it. I'm fairly convinced that a "Yelp" type review location would be a good idea. Not perfect as there'd be some drama....but better than this "wink-wink, hint-hint" passive-aggressive crap. FAR better than agencies claiming they'll do things.

I'm not talking about "Holy crap, he was sculling!" type stuff....I mean thirds and two jumps during Cavern/Intro being done with the student in LP50s and there being no gas matching AND not teaching gas matching. I'm talking about 4 dives in one day with no confined water work for deco training. I'm talking about simulating O2 deco with pure air on a Tec50 course...and never coming close to the minimum depth requirements. I'm talking about a DMC taking a class of 5 freshly-minted OW students on a "deep dive" by burying their PDC until it said 61ft. I'm talking about a DM taking a dozen people 250ft into a CAVE with 3 lights amongst the entire bunch. I'm talking about Full Cave cards being issued by instructors that are buddies with an instructor candidate. I saw a NAUI Cave 1 course finish the DAY OF a Cave 2 course starting....for the same student. I'm talking about some pretty serious violations.....not that someone went boat diving with the "Boat Diving Specialty." Nothing happened. I have zero faith in the system.
 
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