Cave techniques in an Ice environment+

[wb416]

Bob3 once bubbled...
Taking the safety factor out of the equation by eliminating the topside tender is not a very good way to go about things. With no way to communicate with the backup diver, he's effectively eliminated too.

It sure doesn't meet OSHA standards for SAR or PSD work, but I guess neither does freediving through the ice.

Geesh Bob... we're not talking SAR or PSD work here... how many top side tenders are there in Florida manning the lines for the recreational cave divers that routinely penetrate the caves for a weekend dive on 1/6ths or 1/3rds? Is this how you cave dive? I think I missed that requirement in the "Blueprint to Survival" book.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Most arguments I have heard against cave techniques for ice diveing seem to be centered around using reels and handling line while wearinh heavy gloves. But there are those of us that dive cold water caves who know that can be managed. If you take a cave class in Florida the'll tell you that cave divers don't wear gloves. That's true in florida. But the world is full of caves that are filled with very cold water and we wear heavy glove when we dive them.

Without having tested any of this, one disadvantage I do see in using cave techniques under the ice is that you would be forced to go back the way you came (following the line you laid). Using conventional ice diving techniques (thick floating line) you can return directly to the hole.

I'll bet OSHA wouldn't like cave diving one bit.

BTW, around here SAR and PSD don't even come close to OSHA requirements for SAR and PSD. IMO, a cave diver would have a far better chance than the OW divers who never dive that make up some of the teams around here.

Note: I am not endorsing or ecouraging this technique and have never tried it. Do it the way you were trained or deviate at your own risk.

 

[Bob3]

Not to worry, it's just my hundreds of hours of ice diving experience over a 35 year commercial diving career showing through. Never lost a man to so much as an overnight hospital stay.
Using topside tenders isn't the only way to go, just the safest.
If a cave were as straight as a sewerpipe, using topside tenders would be the safest way to go.
The nice thing about ice diving is that you do not need to make long penetrations, you just cut another hole.
At least now, utilizing cave techniques, solo divers can go ice diving. :tease:

 

[TheDarknessLord]

I'm a full cave diver and I would like to make ice cave diving, but I have a question... What type of dry suit an Ice Cave Diver must use? and How Long the diver could stay down?

I can feel the ice under my feet....

 

[The Chairman]

who does a lot of research diving in the Antartic gave an introduction to technical diving for my ITC. His major point was just how different the various environments were in terms of hazzards, but how many of the same techniques are "modified" to work. In the antarctic, visibility is so intense and the magnification is so dramatic that they use multicolored rope to determine just how far they are away from the exit. With sometimes up to 100' (or more) of ice above them, I don't think that cutting their way out is a viable option.

 

[db8us]

The following link shows you a training weekend of some European DIR dudes:
http://www.waldbrenner.de/db8us/dirger7.htm
Sorry, text is in german !

We used all the usual gear under water and we had workshops on land and in water for setting up habitats, breather-dives, rope-work and other stuff.

It is a quarry around 180ft deep and we just installed a permanent line and people tied of from there.
Everyone was forced to have more than enough gas. Mostly people used stages and kept backgas as bailout.
Gasprotocol for scooter-guys was even stricter.
At one time 22 Gavins-scooter drivers were under water.

We limited depth, forced people to use Trimix when going deeper (as usual), had full cavegear with doubles, HID-Lights, etc.

Due to the fact that no heating was used most diving was only done for 2hours per team.

By the way: We saw one sport-diving group going under the ice without line.

About the tender/Surface-thing. We were around half a mile from the entrance most time...

Michael