Cave diving Cert Agencies

[SuPrBuGmAn]

Is that one of the more realistic failures that Liteheaded reffered to? Right post dead and a completely fubar'd wing?

 

[lamont]

Is it still DIR?

No, there's no DIR/GUE SM standard.

Do those GUE guys have the experience in SM to teach a good class?

I haven't taken it, but they were diving SM before diving GUE/DIR.

And I know in some cases, after their switching to GUE/DIR and with the focus on skills in backmount they've found that cave previously considered "sidemount-only" has become easy to push in backmount. Their definition of "sidemount-only" has narrowed considerably.

Has GUE adopted a standard SM setup and how flexible is it to adapt to different environments while still sticking to a 'standard', if such a standard exists?

No such SM DIR/GUE standard exists.

That doesn't inherently stop GUE trained divers from diving SM.

Standard of what?

Things like demanding doing valve drills in trim with good buoyancy rather than the instructor taking the attitude that you'll silt the cave out anyway, so it isn't important.

That isn't left up to the instructor with GUE, that's an agency standard.

You can find good instructors outside of GUE that adhere to standards that high, or possibly even higher, but how does the novice cave diver manage to select a good instructor, if the other agencies aren't going to weed out the bad ones?

 

[lamont]

Is that one of the more realistic failures that Liteheaded reffered to? Right post dead and a completely fubar'd wing?

No, right post dead, so with no backup buoyancy control, you have to orally inflate your wing. Its doable, and its actually good practice. But it does point out that a drysuit is a good idea in a cave.

 

[lamont]

FWIW, I don't have a problem with GUE or DIR, it works for lots of people. Just not everyone. I respect the accomplishments they've made(although you're not going to convince me that someone else couldn't have done it with the same access and amount of time).

You know, GUE divers have done more than just push Wakulla.

 

[SuPrBuGmAn]

I haven't taken it, but they were diving SM before diving GUE/DIR.

I would hope they continue to do so atleast as much as they dive GUE/DIR if they are teaching both... and I hope thats ALOT of both if they are teaching it to others. I wouldn't take a SM course from anyone who doesn't dive in that configuration a significant amount of time.

And I know in some cases, after their switching to GUE/DIR and with the focus on skills in backmount they've found that cave previously considered "sidemount-only" has become easy to push in backmount. Their definition of "sidemount-only" has narrowed considerably.

Have their personal dimensions been reduced significantly after converting to BM? I know what you're getting at... but thats more of a result of whomever's perception, than reality. Its ok to face the fact that there are, infact, sidemount only caves. You can get clean, get stable in BM, without GUE training, and visit smaller BMable caves that you couldn't do as a crappy mess in BM. You'll find no arguement from me there.

Things like demanding doing valve drills in trim with good buoyancy rather than the instructor taking the attitude that you'll silt the cave out anyway, so it isn't important.

That isn't left up to the instructor with GUE, that's an agency standard.

You can find good instructors outside of GUE that adhere to standards that high, or possibly even higher, but how does the novice cave diver manage to select a good instructor, if the other agencies aren't going to weed out the bad ones?

Perhaps by asking specific questions including the example you just posted? I would like to think that most students interviewed their 'possible' instructors atleast a bit before laying down any time and money.

 

[SuPrBuGmAn]

You know, GUE divers have done more than just push Wakulla.

I know, but none of which I'd consider as impressive. We can agree to disagree on this... but I'm gonna say Wakulla has been the pinnacle of their accomplishments to this point.

 

[lamont]

I know, but none of which I'd consider as impressive. We can agree to disagree on this... but I'm gonna say Wakulla has been the pinnacle of their accomplishments to this point.

Most GUE divers and probably most GUE instructors have never dove in Wakulla, however, so characterizing the agency by Wakulla is really missing the whole forest for the one really big tree in it.

 

[LiteHedded]

Is that one of the more realistic failures that Liteheaded reffered to? Right post dead and a completely fubar'd wing?

i could see both of those happening at once on a scooter

 

[SuPrBuGmAn]

Most GUE divers and probably most GUE instructors have never dove in Wakulla, however, so characterizing the agency by Wakulla is really missing the whole forest for the one really big tree in it.

It was an example(the most important IMO) of an achievement, not an inclusive list of everything they've done. You're missing the point.

 

[lamont]

It was an example(the most important IMO) of an achievement, not an inclusive list of everything they've done. You're missing the point.

I understand what point you're making. I just think by dragging the discussion back to WKPP/Wakulla vs. everyone else you've managed to get the discussion back to the same old comfortable pissing match about Wakulla being a closed system. And that argument has very little impact, if any, on GUE divers exploring Ox Bel Ha down in MX...