Cave conservation

[Kevin Carlisle]

Is this a thing of the past? I know I was taught it and I make sure when I'm in a delicate area I'm focused on conservation. I am very disappointed in some cave divers this weekend. Hole in the Wall is one of my favorite caves and this weekend 2 backmount divers went downstream to dig out a restriction so they could pass. For all you backmounters if you want to go in a small place get the right gear!!! If you are not willing to do this then at least have some respect for the cave and for whoever taught you not to hurt the system. Its a simple thing to do, you can't go any further the turn the damn dive. There is a dive tool for every job, use it.

 

[bamamedic]

That blows...HITW is an awesome cave

 

[bamamedic]

Do you know who these divers are?

 

[karstdvr]

Florida Statute 810.13 defines cave vandalism as:

(2) VANDALISM.--It is unlawful for any person, without the prior written permission of the owner, to:

(a) Break, break off, crack, carve upon, write upon, burn, mark upon, remove, or in any manner destroy, disturb, deface, mar, or harm the surfaces of any cave or any natural material which may be found therein, whether attached or broken, including speleothems, speleogens, or sedimentary deposits. This paragraph does not prohibit minimal disturbance or removal for scientific inquiry

 

[TSandM]

That's very sad to hear. Coming on top of the horrible video that somebody posted on the cave diver forum, it makes me wonder whether anyone is worried about preserving the caves.

I had the incredible good fortune to dive an almost untouched section when I was in Mexico a couple of weeks ago. It was sobering to see how incredibly evident everyplace which had been touched by a diver was. There are places you pass, where you can't avoid touching SOMETHING, but there have to be limits.

 

[Kevin Carlisle]

Lynn I dove a system yesterday that is very pristine and without any destruction in it. We were very careful to leave it that way and it deserves to be thaat way. I really don't understand that mentality when all they had to do was get in sidemoung gear. No damage was necessary. I have not seen the video on CDF. Kelly good info, thanks.

 

[ucfdiver]

Is this a thing of the past? I know I was taught it and I make sure when I'm in a delicate area I'm focused on conservation. I am very disappointed in some cave divers this weekend. Hole in the Wall is one of my favorite caves and this weekend 2 backmount divers went downstream to dig out a restriction so they could pass. For all you backmounters if you want to go in a small place get the right gear!!! If you are not willing to do this then at least have some respect for the cave and for whoever taught you not to hurt the system. Its a simple thing to do, you can't go any further the turn the damn dive. There is a dive tool for every job, use it.

Kevin,

These divers are clearly breaking STATE LAW. Instead of wasting your time complaining on a public forum and attempting to create an artificial rivalry between backmounters and sidemounters (the fact they're BM is irrelevant here), why not actually contact someone who can do something about it?

 

[bamamedic]

Sounds like those morons would be damaging cave whether they be backmount or sidemount...I think they'd just be digging out smaller passages in sidemount gear, rather than bigger passages in backmount gear.
People who have such a lack of respect for the caves, that they'd deface it just to get into some new passages, would have that attitude regardless of what gear they were in.

 

[Kevin Carlisle]

I

Kevin,

These divers are clearly breaking STATE LAW. Instead of wasting your time complaining on a public forum and attempting to create an artificial rivalry between backmounters and sidemounters (the fact they're BM is irrelevant here), why not actually contact someone who can do something about it?

James with all due respect I could give a crap about wether to BM or SM. This is about Conservation. It just so happens this was passable SM. It is my intention to say Hey we got some idiots out there. If you don't like it tough. Names have been passed on. The fact remains there was a tool out there called Side Mount that would have allowed them to pass. How do I know this? Cause there is line through there put in by a SM diver. All I care about is people tearing up the caves. I don't care what cave it is, there is no need to intentionally destroy part of it.

 

[ucfdiver]

I

James with all due respect I could give a crap about wether to BM or SM. This is about Conservation. It just so happens this was passable SM. It is my intention to say Hey we got some idiots out there. If you don't like it tough. Names have been passed on. The fact remains there was a tool out there called Side Mount that would have allowed them to pass. How do I know this? Cause there is line through there put in by a SM diver. All I care about is people tearing up the caves. I don't care what cave it is, there is no need to intentionally destroy part of it.

These individuals would tear the cave up no matter what configuration. All I was saying is that gear really shouldn't even play a role in the discussion. If that wasn't the intention for your original post, please accept my apologies.

That being said, I'd suggest you post names on forums and notify Ed. If certain individuals are are intentionally damaging caves, I really think we should call them out, ask Ed not to rent them boats, ask the NSS-CDS to put them on a "blacklist" for sites they own, and notify guided dives such as Hart Springs, Dipolar, etc.