Cave Certs Expiration

[Imbodie]

I The only actual cavern I can think of which is worth diving in FL is Jackson Blue. A cavern card is not really much of a license to learn if there are only a couple sites you can actually dive right?

Peacock cavern ROCKS... Little River is pretty cool too. Ginnie not so much... There is NO excuse for a Cavern student to go past the stop sign EVER... The only standard I think needs to change is 3rds/6ths but that is only based on my opinion not anything factual other than I KNOW people I have dove with violated their guidelines of 6ths...because it just didn't them enough time actually in water... while totally denying that they had pushed their agency standards and were diving 3rds...

Cavern gave me time to get comfortable in an overhead environment... relatively good at frog kick and buoyancy and running a line... still had to do lost line recovery, lost buddy search.... all good prep for moving to Cave1 when I was ready. In fact really feel like Cave1 was a repeat of my cavern course with the exception of actually being IN the cave rather than cavern zone.

 

[Caveeagle]

.. The only actual cavern I can think of which is worth diving in FL is Jackson Blue. A cavern card is not really much of a license to learn if there are only a couple sites you can actually dive right?

^^I disagree. Paradise is one of my favorite caverns. Blue Grotto is not bad as long as you go during a weekday and avoid the crowd.

Peacock cavern ROCKS... Little River is pretty cool too..

These are both good examples of caverns I barely new existed, because went from cavern to Intro before spending enough time seeking out more cavern zones.

 

[Imbodie]

These are both good examples of caverns I barely new existed, because went from cavern to Intro before spending enough time seeking out more cavern zones.

My biggest letdown was Catfish Hotel .... THEN after I got Cave1 found out there was ACTUALLY a cavern at Catfish... but I was to gun shy as a cavern diver to go where I THOUGHT the cave started... even found a map showing it AFTER I found out it was there.

 

[kensuf]

But you teach NAUI Cave1 (don't you??, maybe I'm confused)..... much better as a diver to have the option of 3rds and turn at comfort level... than be limited and then just violate whatever standards you were taught and dive 3rds anyway...

Again, maybe having been cavern for so long before doing Cave1 my perspective is a bit skewed.

I answered this in this post.

Cavern is NOT a pre-req for Cave 1 and for most people it's biting off a lot.

 

[kensuf]

Cavern gave me time to get comfortable in an overhead environment... relatively good at frog kick and buoyancy and running a line... still had to do lost line recovery, lost buddy search.... all good prep for moving to Cave1 when I was ready. In fact really feel like Cave1 was a repeat of my cavern course with the exception of actually being IN the cave rather than cavern zone.

Cavern isn't a pre-req for Cave 1. Think about the people that didn't have that time to get good at running a line, frog kicking, or buoyancy.

 

[Imbodie]

I answered this in this post.

Cavern is NOT a pre-req for Cave 1 and for most people it's biting off a lot.

was pretty sure you were NAUI... just didn't want to accuse you and be wrong.

And never said it was... just said that I was cavern long before I started Cave1. So how do you negate the overwhelming choices that a new Cave1 diver has, I mean you've had to have taught some students that had NO overhead experience and certified them to Cave1... how did they do?

 

[kensuf]

Poorly. Both of the guys that took Cave 1 during my IE failed to pass the course.

There's this thing called task loading and perceptual narrowing. They were overwhelmed with running a reel in flow while wearing doubles and carrying a stage bottle (it's a Cave 1 requirement that each team leave a safety bottle in the cave). Five days was not enough time for them be comfortable enough to complete the program.

They were able to come back later and finish, and I'm proud to say I certified one of them as Cave 2 earlier this year. But Cave 1 was too much for them to begin with.

The traditional Cavern then Intro then Apprentice then Full program has the advantage of eating the elephant in bite sized chunks.

 

[Imbodie]

So Ken... did you require Intro to Tec for them? What about other Cave1 students? or would they be the only two?

First instructor carried safety bottle to the best of my knowledge... (was learning in a team to start)
Second instructor made me carry it.... (was just myself and instructor for finishing class)

Had personality conflicts with first instructor which split the team for instruction if anyone is curious. Still think first instructor was a quality instructor, we both just had strong personalities that did NOT mesh well.

And to come back to the original post... Chose NAUI because their Cave1 cert did not expire AND the additional bonus of 3rds, 2 nav decisions and the BIGGIE... could do class in SideMount NOT backmount....

 

[rjack321]

Peacock cavern ROCKS... Little River is pretty cool too. Ginnie not so much... There is NO excuse for a Cavern student to go past the stop sign EVER... The only standard I think needs to change is 3rds/6ths but that is only based on my opinion not anything factual other than I KNOW people I have dove with violated their guidelines of 6ths...because it just didn't them enough time actually in water... while totally denying that they had pushed their agency standards and were diving 3rds...

Cavern gave me time to get comfortable in an overhead environment... relatively good at frog kick and buoyancy and running a line... still had to do lost line recovery, lost buddy search.... all good prep for moving to Cave1 when I was ready. In fact really feel like Cave1 was a repeat of my cavern course with the exception of actually being IN the cave rather than cavern zone.

Sure cavern works for many students. But I think it's better to do something like GUE-F or Intro to tech in an open water environment. Dial in your buoyancy and kicks (and doubles). THEN go in an overhead where add in the task load of line/reels. Using an overhead environment as a practice site for buoyancy is less than ideal. And there are few places where its even suitable to do so, and those dives end up being short. Its the shortness of the dives which tends to make people want to go just a bit further and break the rules. Combined with not fully developed buoyancy, kicks and awareness and that's when "cavern" as a certification is breaking down.

Poorly. Both of the guys that took Cave 1 during my IE failed to pass the course.

There's this thing called task loading and perceptual narrowing. They were overwhelmed with running a reel in flow while wearing doubles and carrying a stage bottle (it's a Cave 1 requirement that each team leave a safety bottle in the cave). Five days was not enough time for them be comfortable enough to complete the program.

one safety bottle for 2 or 3 students?
Are they supposed to bring one on post class dives too?

 

[karstdvr]

.

The traditional Cavern then Intro then Apprentice then Full program has the advantage of eating the elephant in bite sized chunks.

Would also add the traditional method of making instructors-intern then institute by your peers.