Caught between PADI and an Instructor

[Diver0001]

But of course that list could change by the day depending on how quick the mail is going out and in reply.

LOL

Well i guess if you see your name on the list you should phone them....

R..

 

[tangfish]

Perhaps this instructor is no longer or shorty will be no longer on alert status. If so maybe PADI will process your nitrox card for you.

Have you called PADI to ask them what they plan to do for you? The victim here?

OK, here's the situation to date, I contacted the dive shop (whom I must say I was completely satisfied with everything else they provided me, Rescue Diver training and 23 dives in 8 days). The owner of the dive shop got back to me right away and was surprised about the situation, she said she contacted the instructor right away and that he is currently looking into solving the problem, she assured me that its probably a misunderstanding. I also have been in contact with a woman at PADI through email. She responds in a punctual manner, although she says that I am pretty much Sh*t out of luck, and that its between me and my instructor and that she can do nothing for me. When I asked to be informed about the nature of his 'alert status', was it serious, minor? She said that she could not tell me much more than that he failed to cooperate with a 'Quality Management inquiry', whatever that means. Then she emailed me back and asked for the dates my class took place to 'aid in gathering evidence in the investigation' and to that I have not responded. The last thing I want to do is get this instructor in more trouble (which he may not deserve) and thus also diminish my chances of getting my c-card. I'm in a holding pattern now, just waiting for the instructor or dive shop to get back to me about what is going to happen next.

Thanks for all the great advice, and thank gosh that his name is not on that PADI black list link that someone gave me.

My buddy who's an instructor told me that some misunderstandings with PADI lead to a situation once that had to be (and eventually was) cleared up. He told me to wait and see what happens before taking any drastic action (like getting the Mexican police involved!). I just think its terrible that the instructor (apparently) finds out that he has a problem when I find out that a class I took is not valid. I just wish there were a way to know before I take a class, rather than once I am a couple of thousand miles away from the dive shop and a month later.

~C

 

[Windwalker]

What happens if one checks the list, signs up for the class, pays his money, and takes the course, and in between the instructor sending in the forms and what-nots, he gets his instructor license suspended? Then the class, was done before the Instructor was suspended, but the paperwork arrived afterwards. PADI should issue Certs up to the point that they know the instructor knows he has been suspended. They need to allow for a certian grace period. Does the Instructor have to PAY PADI for a Resubmission of a student document once his Instructor License is reinstated? If that is the case, I don't think I will be refering my friends to any PADI organization.. which is unfortunate because I know a lot of REAL good PADI instructors.

 

[MikeFerrara]

What happens if one checks the list, signs up for the class, pays his money, and takes the course, and in between the instructor sending in the forms and what-nots, he gets his instructor license suspended? Then the class, was done before the Instructor was suspended, but the paperwork arrived afterwards. PADI should issue Certs up to the point that they know the instructor knows he has been suspended. They need to allow for a certian grace period. Does the Instructor have to PAY PADI for a Resubmission of a student document once his Instructor License is reinstated? If that is the case, I don't think I will be refering my friends to any PADI organization.. which is unfortunate because I know a lot of REAL good PADI instructors.

In some cases they will do that.

I didn't renew my PADI membership this year so tchnically I can't issue PADI certifications. However I have a student from almost 2 years ago who never paid me. I got an email from him asking if I would certify him if I were paid so I called PADI. I was told that as long as I was in active teaching status as of the date on the pic they would issue the cert. They told me to back date the pic...not the training records just the pic.

 

[SubMariner]

When you contact the shop and instructor, realize that you only have limited information. PADI occasionally has a hair trigger, and you may be seeing the unfortuante effects of this.

I know nothing about the situation the poster referenced, but this hypothetical example shows how things can blow out of hand.

In the most innocuous example, Joe the instructor has a student panic during an Open Water referral dive. The student bolted to the surface, and later complained of numbness and tingling in a shoulder. Joe administers first aid, places the student on oxygen, and alerts EMS for transport to a hospital for treatment. Joe then writes out an incident report and faxes it to PADI.

PADI opens a file, and then mails a letter to request copies of the liability waiver and training records for this student. The letter demands a reply within 2 weeks or else PADI will place the instructor in suspended status. The international mail being particularly slow, Joe doesn't receive the letter for 4 weeks. For two weeks he has been in a Suspended status and didn't even know it.

It gets worse.

Joe gets PADI's letter, and photocopies the file and mails it to PADI the next day. International mail can be really slow.

I'm sorry, Drew, but this really doesn't make sense. Even hypothetically. "Joe" has already used the fax once, but after the slow snailmail response from PADI he doesn't use it or the telephone? Or email?

Sorry, but I'm with Diver0001 on this one. If you are a true dive professional with PADI & learn you are in Suspended status, you don't sit around twiddling your thumbs. You DO something about it!

 

[Drew Sailbum]

I'm sorry, Drew, but this really doesn't make sense. Even hypothetically. "Joe" has already used the fax once, but after the slow snailmail response from PADI he doesn't use it or the telephone? Or email?

Sorry, but I'm with Diver0001 on this one. If you are a true dive professional with PADI & learn you are in Suspended status, you don't sit around twiddling your thumbs. You DO something about it!

Why is it only the instructor's responsibilty to fax or email promptly? Why isn't it reasonable to reply with the same sense of urgency that a request was made?

Isn't it just as reasonable to expect that PADI use the most expeditious manner to relay their request for more information. Fax, email, or even Fed-Ex work both ways.

An instructor working in the Caribbean may not know he/she has been placed in Suspended status in the first place. A letter saying as much may take a long time to reach him/her.

One month time frame for mail was being generous. I have seen it take up to five months from the date on a PADI letter until I had it in my hands. I'm currently waiting on a letter from Vancouver, BC which was mailed April 15. I'm not holding my breath.

 

[tangfish]

Hello All, good news. I heard back from PADI today, and they said that they talked things over with my instructor and sorted out the problems. They said that he was reinstated in good status, and that my c-card would be sent out immediately. I'm glad that this came to a good resolution and thank you all for the good advice and personal experiences.

 

[Diver0001]

Why is it only the instructor's responsibilty to fax or email promptly? Why isn't it reasonable to reply with the same sense of urgency that a request was made?

Isn't it just as reasonable to expect that PADI use the most expeditious manner to relay their request for more information. Fax, email, or even Fed-Ex work both ways.

An instructor working in the Caribbean may not know he/she has been placed in Suspended status in the first place. A letter saying as much may take a long time to reach him/her.

One month time frame for mail was being generous. I have seen it take up to five months from the date on a PADI letter until I had it in my hands. I'm currently waiting on a letter from Vancouver, BC which was mailed April 15. I'm not holding my breath.

Well, the way I see it you need to view PADI like a company with a million employees, each and every one of them acting independently and spread across the world. I think it's unrealistic to expect the back-office to be acutely aware of teh individual needs of every one of us at every moment. The pro, on the other hand, *is* acutely aware of his/her individual needs and if a pro calls PADI they take action immediately (in my experience). The use of snail mail can and probably should be improved but as a pro you need to be aware that snail mail has its problems and act accordingly. After all PADI is quite clear about it. Fair or not it doesn't matter why you don't respond. If you don't respond on time it's *your* problem to solve....given that, I'd say avoid it becoming a problem to start with. (kind of like DCS actually, prevention is better than cure).

BTW, priority post within North America generally takes a couple of days. From Canada to Europe it's usually 3-5 depending on where the weekend falls and if you're really in a hurry, UPS can do it in 24 hours. A follow up call within the time-frame to verify that it arrived and ask about next-steps and all your problems are history...... It's not like you don't have options even if you have to use snail mail....

R..

 

[ninjamuzo]

Hi I sent your issue along to PADI here was their response (at the time they didn't know any of the other details apart from your original post):

Thanks for asking for our input in this instance.

The situation for any PADI programme as you are aware is to ensure all the
performance objectives have been met for that course. This needs to be
verified by a PADI Instructor who needs to be in current teaching status in
order to do so; he then in turn submits the appropriate paperwork to PADI
and the certification is issued to the student.

If the Instructor is not a current member for whatever reason, we are unable
to verify the course has been taught according to PADI standards and
consequently cannot issue the certification.

There is the ability to check if a PADI Instructor is current via the
ProCheck facility that is available on the PADI web site, which is generally
where a dive centre will check before employing a PADI Instructor.

In this instance, the student would need to gain re-certification; this is
generally offered by the dive centre at a reduced cost in many such cases,
and can be completed on a prescriptive basis as far as the theory content is
concerned, so the student would not have to sit through the lectures, just
verify his knowledge by completing the exam again.

I hope this clarifies the issue for you; it is always unfortunate when this
happens to a student, however it is essential for the protection of the
diving public and the integrity of the PADI Quality Management system.

 

[tangfish]

Thanks Ninja, I'm glad I got it sorted out. I know where they're coming from as far as not letting some people teach, but perhaps there could be some quicker communication going on to avoid situations like I had. I mean, mine was sorted out relatively quickly, but I imagine that there are others out there who end up taking up quite some time unraveling some problems. All of the dive destinations I've been to (and some were quite remote) had email access somewhere. Perhaps they could require all communications to be via email and for those people teaching in places without email, the response times could be lengthened accordingly due to the snail mail delivery time being longer. I dunno, just a suggestion.