Catalina Diver died today w/ Instructor

[Red Vette]

Thank you Ken!

And he is not new here

 

[DandyDon]

Ken, I don't know if you're new here or what but I'll tell you this, nature abhors a vacuum. In the absence of facts speculation will abound on any internet forum. Is there really anything wrong with this? Not really since it often provokes interesting discussions and insights into accidents and dive safety. Sometimes it gets dirty, sometimes crazy but often pearls of wisdom are found in every online discussion. If you develop a way to ensure only truly reliable people post only verified facts please let us know. Anyone who has spent more than 5 minutes on an online forum knows everything must be taken with a grain of salt.

No, Ken is not at all new here. He enrolled the year after you, as illustrated on anyone's posts, but he seldom posts other than to give information on LA County accidents. I mentioned that he might join in earlier here.

While Ken did speak against speculations, which I disagree in constructive terms, I think he clarified his intent there....

Discussing dive dangers and how to avoid them: good!

Guessing at her age, location, problem, etc: Confussing.​

I think we know she bolted for the surface which is not safe. About it for now.

 

[cloudswinger]

I know someone quite well whose mother-in-law died at almost exactly the same age in almost the exact same kind of incident. The similarities might be instructive.

She was doing her deep dive in an AOW class, discarded her regulator, and bolted to the surface. The instructor tried to stop her but could not.

The autopsy revealed that she had not only had a heart attack, she had had one recently before that--perhaps the day before. It also showed she had had an embollism, no doubt caused by the no-regulator bolt to the surface.

Here is the theory of the sequence:

1. Heart attack
2. Poor circulation caused by heart attack leads to a sense that the regulator is not providing air.
3. Panic and rejection of "non-working" regulator
4. Bolt to the surface while holding breath
5. Embollism

BTW, my own mother suffered congestive heart failure, although it was not fatal. The primary symptom was the sense that she was not getting any air when she breathed. She put he head out the window and gasped for air. Having something like that happen under water would certainly cause panic.

Just wanted to add that symptoms of a heart attack in women are different than the symptoms for men, and that a lot of women have undetected heart attacks and die because they didn't recognize the symptoms as being a heart attack. My sister-in-law had back pains, thought she had injured/strained her back, even went to the doctor and died a week or so later from a heart attack.

 

[Ken Kurtis]

I also didn't know that there's a mooring line on the Sue-Jac (that has to be new because it wasn't there last year).

"Mooring line" is a bad choice of words on my part. (We've been discussing "mooring lines" a lot in the MLPA discussions and the phrase is jammed in my head.)

I was referring to the chain that's attached to the large ball that marks that corner of the UW Park and which terminates down near the nose of the Sujack. My bad if anyone thought there was another line either inside or outside the Park in that area. from what I can tell, it's the Sujack chain/line where everything took place.

- Ken

 

[drbill]

Ken new here? Hardly. Ken is an expert witness with decades of experience in these matters.

I've been unable to log onto ScubaBoard until just now. I am a friend of the instructor and met the deceased diver the day prior to the incident. The deep dive was NOT the first in her AOW sequence. The instructor, whose name I wish to keep private, is a well known and cautious instructor with deep compassion for her students. I was there to comfort her and the deceased's BF in the hotel room before they returned to the mainland.

As Ken said, there is a LOT of speculation here.My understanding of the events based on my conversations with the instructor and the deceased diver's BF are as follows:

1. The deceased diver had some diving experience prior to taking the AOW course. She and her BF planned to take dive trips to Honduras and the Caymans in the near future and it is my understanding that she was trying to improve her skills level.

2. The instructor and diver descended along the south boundary buoy (which reaches a depth just under 100 ft). They were on the chain when the initial problems began at a depth of approximately 60 ft.

3. The instructor, who was slightly below the student, rose to her level and was given the OOA signal by the student. The instructor checked the SPG and she had plenty of air in her tank. Something may have caused her to believe she couldn't get air at this point (it is mere speculation to suggest a heart attack at this point although it is a possibility... we'll have to wait for the autopsy to determine whether this might have triggered difficult breathing).

4. The student panicked and began ascending whereupon the instructor, at the risk of her own life, grabbed onto the student and tried to slow the descent. She came to the surface shortly after the student surfaced.

5. The harbor patrol and Baywatch responded quickly since the harbor patrolman (also a friend of mine) was in the fairway near the dive park and immediately sensed something wasn't right.

Until the instructor wishes to comment herself, that is my recollection of the situation. The instructor was devastated by this and I hope we will all respect her need for privacy at this point. IMHO, she is a very competent SCUBA professional who deeply cares for her students.

 

[RikRaeder]

A simple question with no attached insinuation, denegration, or allegation; whatever a victim's SPG reads, wouldn't it be prudent to offer someone who signals OOA your secondary (or long hose, or whatever) until things are sorted out; if nothing more at least to comfort them?

 

[drbill]

Not if the diver elects to bolt

 

[RikRaeder]

How about when they signal to you that they're out of air?

 

[Bubbletrubble]

How about when they signal to you that they're out of air?

Based on the training that I've received, the appropriate response is to provide your alternate air source (if diving with an octo) or your primary reg on the long hose (if diving that setup) to the OOA diver.

 

[openmindOW]

Let me begin this post with a two brief caveats. First, I have no facts whatsoever about the Catalina incident. Second, I am not speculating. But I do wish to make an observation concerning what it feels like to hyperventilate whiel on SCUBA. (I am not suggesting that this is what occurred in this case.)

Years ago, when I was young, I went diving in cold water with an experienced Divemaster. I hyperventilated. We were at about 65' of depth. I felt like I was not getting enough air and that scared me. I switched to my Octo to see if if would give me more air.

I still felt air-starved, but I wasn't. I just felt that way. I signalled to my buddy that we need to ascend and we aborted the dive.

We slowly ascended and surfaced. All turned out fine. I learned a valuable lesson.

My point here is that this experience taught me that when hyperventilating it is possible to feel like you're not getting enough air. That can scare a diver, particularly a new diver.