Catalina Diver died today w/ Instructor

[DwayneJ]

Panic is bad - There is no reasoning.

 

[robertarak]

I have been reading this thread since the very first post. I admit that I too in my mind was not only deeply sadened by the events I read about, but gave thought to how I teach my classes at that same location and what the instructor involved could have done differently. It was not until later I found out I know the instructor. I have dived and worked with this instructor and have done this very dive with her many times. She is a very experienced, capable and caring instructor. Knowing her as I do, I have no doubt that everything that could have been done or should have been done, was. I also am very familiar with her level of training. Any OOG signal would have been met with quick action.
I have no facts of the incident myself, only of the instructor. Please consider the above when speculating.

 

[drbill]

I just posted this in the thread on allowing speculation and thought it appropriate to post in this thread as well:

While speculation can, on occasion, provide useful information or suggestions, much of what was in that thread was just downright stupid and careless... hopefully a result of not reading what was stated by people who actually knew something about the incident.

Let me suggest something that may not have been considered. If YOU were the instructor involved in an incident, would YOU want to read groundless speculation about the incident... especially when it seems to criticize the instructor without basis? I know I would take such posts in a hurtful manner if I were an instructor who had just lost a student.

Of course this is one reason I never plan to become a dive professional. I would never want to find myself in a situation of this nature.

 

[drbill]

Sorry, but when did Ken Kurtis become the guru of dive accident debriefings?

I guess since he became an expert witness and consultant in such matters. Do you feel he lacks credentials or that you possess greater expertise in such matters? I have thousands of dives over nearly 50 years, but would never suggest I had the expertise Ken possesses.. until, of course, he talks about my specialty of marine ecology (and he is still quite knowledgeable there as well).

 

[Jax]

Thanks for the several posts with great information with regard to the incident.

While it is clear that now that the instructor wasn't in a situation where she could donate her alternate, I would still like to address those who wonder why she didn't donate her reg/alternate at the time of the OOA signal. Even if the student had given the OOA and spit out her reg AND the instructor had tried to donate does not mean the student would not have bolted. I had an incident where I was practically shoving my alternate into a students mouth, but he chose to bolt rather than take my alternate.

I have great empathy for this instructor.

Please note that it is very important for those of you concerned in such a thing to remember you *have no control* over the actions of another. You can guide, mentor, teach, rehearse, drill, urge, conjole, threaten, etc. . . . but you cannot *make* anyone do anything. Be saddened by the fate of the individual, but be heartened by the knowledge that you did everything you could to prepare the other for the situation in which they found themselves. Second-guessing and torturing yourselves with "should've, could've, ought-to've" leads to depression and self-denigration, and is totally stupid.

Paraphrase of briefings / counselings to leadership, for leadership / coworkers / teammates of those lost in action or to suicide after such action. (US Military).

 

[stedel]

Sorry, but when did Ken Kurtis become the guru of dive accident debriefings?

Ken Kurtis is a extremely experienced instructor, a well recognized expert witness and a consultant to the coroner's office on scuba related incidents.

 

[Red Vette]

As usual, good points Dr. Bill. Your great personality is shown by your ability to control your thoughts. You are one of the very few whose ego is smaller than their mouth.

The easiest thing in the world is to tell someone else what to do.... or what they should have done. It is not right to name call, or treat people with out respect. We all put our pants on one leg at a time....we all need to learn from each other and appricate each other for what they bring into the world. We need to digest what happened, learn... and apply that to how we may be better divers....or better mentors.

 

[InTheDrink]

Thanks to Ken and Bill and others with good info. on this topic. Speculation can be really useful but getting a fuller understanding of what actually happened is infinitely more useful.

Again, thanks Ken, Bill et. al for giving good information to consider.

J

 

[drbill]

As usual, good points Dr. Bill. Your great personality is shown by your ability to control your thoughts. You are one of the very few whose ego is smaller than their mouth.

My ego may be small (after all, I'm just a dive bum not a dive pro) but my libido makes up for it. Seriously, thanks. The subject of this thread hits close to home for me and I'm sure for many others who know the instructor or knew her student.

 

[Codyjp]

I have been reading this thread since the very first post. I admit that I too in my mind was not only deeply sadened by the events I read about, but gave thought to how I teach my classes at that same location and what the instructor involved could have done differently. It was not until later I found out I know the instructor. I have dived and worked with this instructor and have done this very dive with her many times. She is a very experienced, capable and caring instructor. Knowing her as I do, I have no doubt that everything that could have been done or should have been done, was. I also am very familiar with her level of training. Any OOG signal would have been met with quick action.
I have no facts of the incident myself, only of the instructor. Please consider the above when speculating.

Robert, thanks for posting! I wish everybody could take a step back and realize they might be talking about somebody they know.

Haven't seen you in a while, hope your well.