Carrying Three Regulators

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It is when you have two or more 2nd stages on necklaces or cliped off in a simular fashion that the confusion factor comes in. We lost divers, as in dead on the bottom, due to the confusion. They died with full back gas and an empty pony.

They didn't die from having extra second stages, they died from not following procedures for verifying what they were breathing and maintaining proper buddy procedures. Either one would have been a life-saver.

Terry
 
If you are sometimes diving with a pony, and sometimes not, you will probably want to keep your backgas regs configured the same.

It is annoying to be removing a second stage and re-installing it every other week.

If you are used to your backup regulator being in one place, you want to be able to rely on it being there without having to think about which setup you are using, and where it should be.

Tom
 
Thanks again everyone. One final question on the sharing of "gas" from the main tank with a single regulator? Why is this an issue? I am carrying a pony why do you need access to my tank? If for some unknown, unforseeable reason you do, why cant we share a regulator? I mean we are talking about something that is remote in the extreme aren't we? We would need two simultaneous major malfunctions to require you to need access to my main tanks air. At least it seems that way to me.

Hi Twiddles:

Whew! I bet you think you got an eyeful; imagine what it would be like if all of these peeps were in a room together. I so bad want to mention D*R, but if we were in the room, I fear getting shot! Just kidding.

Seriously, to your question above about sharing a regulator. In theory it works great, and you should have done it in OW class, swim around, etc. But were you panicked? Probably not- you were just checking a box so that you could become a diver. But once class is over, rarely do people think about the vital skills they learned, and even worse they don't practice them and neither does their buddy. They want to strap on that fancy computer and all of that colorful gear they bought and just jump into the big blue. So now you're swimming around and all of a sudden, imagine your buddy signals out of gas. You jump into savior mode and think your going to give them your regulator, they'll breathe for a bit and then you'll breathe for a bit and you both will repeat as necessary. Now toss in, you actually have to move, preferably ascending through the water column. Depending on the hose length you have you may have to be pretty close together, and with you two sharing a regulator, hopefully you are damn near face to face or some similar configuration. So you start moving towards the anchor line or however you want to get out, and those breaths just aren't lasting like they did, and your partner is thinking the same thing! Uh oh. Now this was just an example. It is not as easy as it sounds and unless you practice this and you buddy does the same, it may be the start of the end for one or both of you and next thing you know- blow and go! Unplanned task loading leading to more panic. Now if you had a primary regulator and a backup, then you could take out at least one factor leading to increased task loading. That's a start.

Now with practicing and discussing things, like in skydiving, plan your dive and then dive your plan. What are you going to do during the dive, how deep, how long, what if's, emergencies, etc. Diving should be a lot more than just strapping on your gear, pony bottle, whatever, and returning to the boat with 500 psi. But you have to plan that, your buddy should help, and both of you should understand it.

If you are going to rig a bottle for carry, make sure you know what's in it, note the ease that you may access it, and how to put it into service. There are tons of ways some right, some kinda' shaky, but whatever works for you I will say.

Finally, I would like to leave you with two links, I think one of the posters here wrote one of the articles, and I do hope he doesn't mind me sharing. They are both great articles and in a word to sum them both up- prevention. From Lamont and from NWGratefulDiver. These are in no order of preference, FYI.

Please be safe and have fun diving!

With kindest regards from North Carolina,
Thomas
 
They didn't die from having extra second stages, they died from not following procedures for verifying what they were breathing and maintaining proper buddy procedures. Either one would have been a life-saver.

Terry

What you and Bob are totally missing is that I am relating the problems that we had in the 1970's and 1980's. If you were not born yet we had

  • Steel 72's or Aluminum 80's and not much more. Some were on manifolds, many were on independent singles.
  • Pony bottles were strapped to your tank. No one had come up with the idea of a slug cylinder
  • US Navy Decompression tables
  • Air
We did not have
  • The Internet where the transfer of information is instant. There just was no cross pollination between the caver's and wreckers till Billy Deans in the early 90's
  • Nitrox and mix was something the Navy did
  • The long hose
  • Back plates and wings
  • Computers
If we dove a dry suit, we did not use a BC

Go back to my first post and I started with "back in the day." I then set the problem of too many 2nd stages, what happened a few times because of them, and how we overcame the problem when it was identified.

I also then said that there was no reason to either have the problem or to use that solution as the technique of a slung pony/stage is now well established.

Please try to keep in mind that GUE/DIR/Tech Diving/etc..... are only about 15 years old. SCUBA started in 1944, there is a lot that happened to set the stage for what you are doing now.

Try to understand how what you are doing was developed, or you will just parrot what "The book says" or "what my instructor told me" and never understand why you do it.
 
What you and Bob are totally missing is that I am relating the problems that we had in the 1970's and 1980's. If you were not born yet we had

  • Steel 72's or Aluminum 80's and not much more. Some were on manifolds, many were on independent singles.
  • Pony bottles were strapped to your tank. No one had come up with the idea of a slug cylinder
  • US Navy Decompression tables
  • Air
We did not have
  • The Internet where the transfer of information is instant. There just was no cross pollination between the caver's and wreckers till Billy Deans in the early 90's
  • Nitrox and mix was something the Navy did
  • The long hose
  • Back plates and wings
  • Computers
If we dove a dry suit, we did not use a BC

Go back to my first post and I started with "back in the day." I then set the problem of too many 2nd stages, what happened a few times because of them, and how we overcame the problem when it was identified.

I also then said that there was no reason to either have the problem or to use that solution as the technique of a slung pony/stage is now well established.

Please try to keep in mind that GUE/DIR/Tech Diving/etc..... are only about 15 years old. SCUBA started in 1944, there is a lot that happened to set the stage for what you are doing now.

Try to understand how what you are doing was developed, or you will just parrot what "The book says" or "what my instructor told me" and never understand why you do it.

Pete ... first off, thank you for the historical perspective. People often don't see the larger picture, and I think that's important.

I didn't miss your point at all. I just don't think it's a good justification for "simplification" in this case.

If someone dies because of a confusion with how their gear is set up, then one obvious point of concern is whether or not configuring the gear that way is a good idea.

In the context of this ongoing conversation ... the confusion wasn't caused by carrying multiple regs, it was caused by how those regs were arranged on the diver.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
please enlighten me on why 3 is better then 2, there have been none posted thus far.

I don't want this thread to drag on, so I'm not going to continue this argument.

The bottom line is that it all comes down to personal preference, based on how you wish to handle an OOA situation. Is one choice "better" than another? Maybe for certain situations but overall it doesn't make much difference so long as the divers are comfortable with their equipment.

With that said, I've contributed all I care to for this thread (probably).

Dive safe, and have fun doing it,

Dave
 
The bottom line is that it all comes down to personal preference, based on how you wish to handle an OOA situation. Is one choice "better" than another? Maybe for certain situations but overall it doesn't make much difference so long as the divers are comfortable with their equipment.

I think that probably says it all for the experienced divers here. They can set up and handle whatever configuration works best for them and their buddy. Speaking as a n00b, if I am diving with someone that has a pony bottle, one thing I have learned from this thread is that I really ought to make sure that both OOG scenarios (they're OOG, I'm OOG) are discussed. Will they be handing me a pony if I need gas? If I see them breathing from their pony does that mean they have a problem? And so on...

Although some people feel there is a one right answer, this thread suggests to me that I will encounter different configurations and different protocols in my travels, and it will be important to know what my partner expects should I dive with someone carrying a pony bottle.

So... Big thanks to everyone.
 
Pete ... first off, thank you for the historical perspective. People often don't see the larger picture, and I think that's important.

I didn't miss your point at all. I just don't think it's a good justification for "simplification" in this case.

If someone dies because of a confusion with how their gear is set up, then one obvious point of concern is whether or not configuring the gear that way is a good idea.

In the context of this ongoing conversation ... the confusion wasn't caused by carrying multiple regs, it was caused by how those regs were arranged on the diver.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Sorry I got a bit ticked off this morning, my back is killing me today.
The thing is, is that we did reconize that gear configuration was the issue. So, we solved it by having different shaped 2nd stages (Jet Stream/Oden/Shower Head and Cyclon/Thor/Hocky Puck Posidons and a more standard thired 2nd stage, say Conshelf/SE2 etc), so that you could not confuse what tank you were on as long as you used the same regulator on the same tank.

By far the slung pony/stage is the better/best solution wether you use a long hose or not. We just did not have slung bottels till Joel Silverstine and Billy Deans started showing us them around 1993-95.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/perdix-ai/

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