Caribbean DMs: Do you care if someone doesn't want your tour?

[flots am]

I do almost entirely cold water diving, and do quite a bit of it. However I end up in the tropics once or twice a year on a cruise because non-diving friends and family want to go "someplace warm".

This generally means I end up on a boat dive with a bunch of random strangers, and a DM or two that plan on leading a tour.

The problem is that I don't like tours. I don't want to see the pet eel, or swim though the remains of a wreck that you go through three times a day. I want to drop down the mooring line, wander over to a chunk of coral and wait for stuff to come out and say "Hello." I'm perfectly happy to watch a 10' square patch of reef for the entire time you're leading around the rest of the group.

Do you really care if someone doesn't want to "follow the leader"?

flots.

 

[doctormike]

I totally agree. Never understood this need to cover so much ground. You almost always see more if you stake out a patch of reef and wait, and you use less gas too.

 

[Stoo]

Like you, I hate diving with the gang. At home, I'm either solo diving or with one or two trusted buddies. I have my own boat and avoid crowds like the plague.

When we travel, we seek out places that are small (our current favorite "resort" is on a tiny island off the coat of Belize and has a maximum of 8 guests. We are 5 of them... IMHO, the most significant mistake you are making is agreeing to go on a cruise, and thinking it's a dive trip. That's the worst kind of tourist diving there is, bar none, and if I was ever forced to go on a cruise, I'd plan on leaving my dive gear at home, and just resort to a week of gluttony and over-indulgence, and forget diving completely.

Or, you could grow a pair and go on the trip you want, and do the diving you want to do!

Having said that, I used to work as a guide in the Bahamas and Grand Cayman about 35 years ago. I understand that part of the DMs job is to keep me safe, and wandering off causes them stress and arguably puts less experienced clients at risk, if the DM is having to hunt for me and my buddy while we work at taking the perfect picture.

I've found that three things are required in order to dive "independently"... First, communicate with the dive operator before you book the trip, and explain how you would LIKE to dive. If they shut you down then and there, look elsewhere. Assuming they agree that, in theory, this is ok, then the second part is to have that conversation with the Operation's manager and the DM when you arrive, reminding them of the earlier agreement. And finally, be prepared to "prove" that you are capable. Remember that like drivers, all divers THINK that they are awesome in the water, when in reality, many are a loose backpack away from a near-death experience... Be prepared to dive with the group for a couple of dives and show the DM that you are capable and then tell him/her what you are planning on doing, so that they know roughly where you are, and when you will be back. That's just courtesy.

You might also consider getting a solo card. I have done a few trips with the Explorer Liveaboard folks. They are very good about letting you do your own thing with your buddy. They are also quite ok with you diving alone as well, IF you are solo certified and suitably equipped (as in with one of their rental ponys). I always take some log books as well. In my case, because I'm old and have been doing this a while, I generally have more dives logged than most of the pimple-faced DMs put together... And that gets me some "privileges"!

I have found that most "legit" diving operations will allow a reasonable amount of freedom when you show you are capable of not abusing it. You just need to play the game a bit, and also pick the right location. (Cozumel, for example, requires that you need to "stay with the group" due to the drift diving, but the DM might be ok with you tagging along way behind the group).

Good luck!

 

[flots am]

When we travel, we seek out places that are small (our current favorite "resort" is on a tiny island off the coat of Belize and has a maximum of 8 guests. We are 5 of them... IMHO, the most significant mistake you are making is agreeing to go on a cruise, and thinking it's a dive trip. That's the worst kind of tourist diving there is, bar none, and if I was ever forced to go on a cruise, I'd plan on leaving my dive gear at home, and just resort to a week of gluttony and over-indulgence, and forget diving completely.

A bad day of fishing is better than a good day at work.

You might also consider getting a solo card.

Already have one. I'll have to see if they'll accept it next time.

"Following the DM" always struck me as immensely stupid, since there are no DMs in the Northeast where the diving is quite a bit more difficult and unforgiving, but if I travel to the land of warm water, sunshine and drinks made inside a coconut, suddenly I'm not safe unless I'm following someone I've never met before.

flots.

 

[KeithG]

In my experience the answer is "nope - 2 less vacation divers to babysit".

We avoid any place where a dive guide is mandatory. All of the Caribbean places we go to provide a dive guide. We never use them as they tend to attract a cluster ...

Each time at a new dive op, we wait until after the dive briefing and then tell the guide that we are slow swimmers and that we will trail behind and will not attempt to keep up. We indicate we will checkin with them on the return leg as they paddle by will see them under the boat at around the 55 minute mark.

Never had an issue with this as the guide knew our plan ahead of time.

 

[Doc]

I could really care less, but then again, the environments that I guide in lend themselves to absolute newcomers being able to easily navigate and wind-up at the "exit point".

Unfortunately, quite a few "I vant to be alone" divers do not fit into the categories so far described. They will do their dive deep, fast, and never find all the cool critters that a locally experienced diver may know as pets.

As many times as I dive wrecks such as the Coolidge or Thistlegorm- no thanks... I'll follow a local DM.

Most dives that that I lead, people have a specific desire to follow me and learn microscopic observation or families have hired me on holiday. I did just have a recent experience doing dives and lectures at CCV's Sea Horse Festival. If guest divers wished to slow down, stay shallow and follow me... The people who did found some new critters. The others who did not? They also had a good time.

i was happy either way.

 

[Darnold9999]

Have only found one Carribean operation that will allow you to do this - plus liveaboards of course. Did a few dives with Grand Bahama Scuba and after a couple of dives with them keeping close watch they were happy with me doing my own thing.

Just came back from St Maarten and Saba.

In St Maarten they just are not set up to handle this kind of diving or that kind of diver. 99% of the divers they see are vacation divers and so that is what they expect. They don't really want to change their ways for a single diver - which given the business model makes sense. Very frustrating. Only did two dives as it just wasn't worth chasing the guide all over the reef or the stress it caused him when I stopped to take a few pictures.

Saba generally gets a more serious diver and I found the operator and guides there much more accomodating. Not to the point of allowing a solo dive, but the operator did speak to the guide and he was happpy to allow me to get "lost" and do my own dive.

I don't get what people see in the "guided tour" that swims them over the reef at to me is top speed. Much rather have a guide like you get in Lembeh or the like that points out the cool stuff and lets you spend as much or little time as you want with it while they are off finding the next critter. That is a guide I will follow. The reef "tour" is a guide I will ignore after about 10 minutes. Unfortunately my experience is that anywhere vacation divers congregate that is what you will get.

 

[Diving Dubai]

This is a subject very close to my heart, so please forgive the lengthy post.

First of all as context, I consider myself an experienced diver - or more correctly more experienced than my number of dives my lead you to believe. I dive 2-3 weekends a month in blue water conditions which can be challenging (washing machine currents, down current up currents and the like) my usual buddy has +500 dives but others from my club are well into there 1000's (one buddy in particular gave up counting at 5000 in 2002.

What I'm saying here is that I am more current and potentially more experienced with challenging conditions than someone who just does vacation diving - they may have 300 + dives over 5 years or more but in benign conditions.

So when you arrive with a dive operator you must remember that YOU chose to be there and not the other way around. The the dive leader has legal obligations towards you and you fellow divers. Someone can arrive with a thick log book and loads of certs but does that prove they are a competent diver (they may just be a card collector and have only dived beginner type sites).

Generally in my experience the Dive leader separates the group if possible into standard and advanced going by your certs and on you first dive will expect you to go with the group. All the time they will be assessing you, from your gear, your attitude and behaviour on deck as well as in the water - are you calm, are you neutral in the water with good trim etc etc. A good guide from the first dive will have evaluated your competency and will allow you to dive accordingly.

In my experience the first dive is a group. We (my buddy and I) generally dive at the back of the pack to avoid the fin soup, but always within sight of the guide and in keeping with THEIR Plan.

Generally afterwards we get to dive as a solo pair and do our own thing within the constraints of the dive.

However. Guides know their back yard, you often see small stuff that you may miss - we both carry cameras and guides switch onto this and keep an eye out while we are taking pictures of other stuff we see - pointing out stuff of interest - where possible they chose sites that are more challenging where they may not normally take others once they've evaluated our skills.

A good example of this was in the Maldives this year, our boat had a non dividing day for change over so we went to an island. On the boat there were people who looked blanket when given an SMB - having never seen one let alone never used one. We on the other hand produced our own clearly well used items. Our DM immediately changed the plan absolving us from the need to do the check dive and SMB deployment exercise assigning us another guide to take us out as a pair. We'd have been happy to play along with the check dive if that was what they wanted as we were on their boat!

The most important thing is to chose the right operator - of course there are some that want to get as many people in the water as possible doing easy dives so as to make money with little stress, and then there are operators who will tailor the diving to the skills of the people with them. Remember you need to dive to the capabilities of the weakest member of the group.

Livaboards will cater for higher skill levels - resorts will cater for the majority and members of the group may even be on their first dive after getting their cert thus dives are set up accordingly.

If you are with an operator that is running dives that are too "easy/boring" for you and your buddy it's possibly because you've chosen the wrong operator for your style of diving. A good operator will where possible adjust your diving to your capabilities, but then some peoples view of their own capabilities may be vastly different from the view taken by the Dive guide who has watched them perform and is responsible legally for their safety.

 

[DivemasterDennis]

flots am describes my idea of a great dive. However, when Debbie and I want to "do our own thing" I always clear it in advance by showing my DM credentials AND my current DM insurance card. With the presentation of those things, I have only rely been denied the privilege of "leading my own dive." There are really three components: professional credential, insurance, and a buddy. There are plenty of dive concessions that will let you dive your own profile without professional credentials or insurance, but all that I know will want you to have a buddy. If you are "stuck" on a tour, it is because that is what you signed up for. Talk to the operator before the dive and your will probably improve your experience on the dive.
DivemasterDennis

 

[Skittl1321]

If you're a cruise diver who is only there one day and thus can't prove yourself (since you only likely have 2 tanks scheduled in one location) a capable diver to the dive op to be allowed to do your own thing, why not hire a private DM (if in a location where a DM is required). Then tell that DM to follow you.