Canon S95 v Oly ZX-1 vs ?

[Puffer Fish]

That is where the Oly comes in...

$800 gets you the camera and the case, and this is one very nice camera.

We don't know about the wide angle lens, but we do know that add on macro lens work really well. I am willing to take the risk on the wide angle (I own several, so as soon as the case is available will test)

Image quality, if using low iso, is almost identical to the pen, except the zoom ratio is a lot more usable (as macro shooting is typically best done with some working distance.), and you don't need to buy several lens to do macro and normal images.

It has a wider range of F stops.

Has flash sync to 1/2000

I don't worrry about the tripod mount, as I give all my students a cutout rubber mat that supports the case when screwed down.

Bang for your buck, I don't know how one could spec out a better setup.

Oh, and the oly strobe does an amazing job of ttl.

If I expected new people to UW photography to start out buying a $1,200 camera and case, I would not have any students. Most people I know are on a budget, and if we can get them the camera and case for less, we do it. until the oly came out, I have had a difficult time getting people really really good setup, at a reasonable price.

And for people starting out, don't teach manual control, as they have enough to worry about. Not against it, just don't see the need with the current technology.

I need help keeping my budget in check. My typical thought cycle goes like, I should just pay the money and get a better P&S housing. A Recsea S95 housing at $800 only requires I increase my budget $600. But at $1,200 for P&S camera and housing, why don't I just get an Oly EPL2 camera and factory housing for $1,300, I'll get a snappier shutter and much bigger sensor. I know dome ports and wide lenses will double that cost, but it will be a much better system! But thats still a plastic housing, I could get an Aquatica Sony NEX5 housing for $1,400 without camera. But then why don't I just buy an Ikelite housing for my existing Canon 500D for that much money, then i'd just need to get a true wide lens and some ports. But add some strobes and now i'm at double my original $2,000 budget and I know i'll just flood a DSLR, so why don't I just get an Oly 8010 waterproof camera and housing. That will be much cheaper and it will last me forever. There's no good wet lenses for the Oly 8010 and it doesn't shoot raw, better get an S95 and factory housing with Inon LD mount adaptor. Well, thats a pretty crappy housing to mount any good wet lenses tand strobes to. Better get a Recsea S95 housing if i'm going to use wet lenses...

 

[chris196]

I need help keeping my budget in check. My typical thought cycle goes like, I should just pay the money and get a better P&S housing. A Recsea S95 housing at $800 only requires I increase my budget $600. But at $1,200 for P&S camera and housing, why don't I just get an Oly EPL2 camera and factory housing for $1,300, I'll get a snappier shutter and much bigger sensor. I know dome ports and wide lenses will double that cost, but it will be a much better system! But thats still a plastic housing, I could get an Aquatica Sony NEX5 housing for $1,400 without camera. But then why don't I just buy an Ikelite housing for my existing Canon 500D for that much money, then i'd just need to get a true wide lens and some ports. But add some strobes and now i'm at double my original $2,000 budget and I know i'll just flood a DSLR, so why don't I just get an Oly 8010 waterproof camera and housing. That will be much cheaper and it will last me forever. There's no good wet lenses for the Oly 8010 and it doesn't shoot raw, better get an S95 and factory housing with Inon LD mount adaptor. Well, thats a pretty crappy housing to mount any good wet lenses tand strobes to. Better get a Recsea S95 housing if i'm going to use wet lenses...

This was funny reading because it describes my thought process.

 

[scottfiji]

Oh n you are such a thread downer Scott what's your take on the xz1 accessory lens / zoom

hi Ramasule, I'm not sure I understand the question.

From what i've read here the main options for Phase 1 inline with my budget would be
$400 Canon S95
$200 Factory housing
$100 Inon LD mount
$440 UWL H100
$1,140 Total

$500 Oly ZX-1
$300 Factory housing
$400 Fisheye Fix UWL-04
$1,200 Total

L Comments welcome.

FYI at Bluewater photo we offer the tack-sharp Dyron 15mm wide-angle lens ($312, 67mm mount) and Dyron 20mm wide-angle lens ($271, 67mm mount). The 15mm will work with the canon factory housing (which we have for $175), and will probably work with the XZ-1 housing. It has more than a 100 degree angle of view, and very sharp corners. With the canon housing you will need a $64 adapter.

Scott

 

[friscuba]

OK.


5. Macro mode with flash?


N

Macro mode with flash, no problem, supermacro mode with flash, problem. You can get the lens to within 3.93 inches of the subject and the flash will still work, probably closer if you have a macro adapter. Not a lot of people are going to be doing photos much closer than that.

 

[slowhands]

Macro mode with flash, no problem, supermacro mode with flash, problem. You can get the lens to within 3.93 inches of the subject and the flash will still work, probably closer if you have a macro adapter. Not a lot of people are going to be doing photos much closer than that.

Well said. Macro flash works, supermacro flash, not.

There are certain macro subjects, such as pygmy seahorses, that demand strong magnification and use of flash. I believe one or even two stacked macro lenses will be needed to have the magnification necessary and allow adequate working distance. I typically find them from 10-30 meters depth, so flash is needed.

I don't have an XZ-1, but here is what the manual says:

XZ-1 Instruction Manual
Choosing a Focus Mode/Shooting Close-ups, p.36
Macro focuses to 10cm (3.93 inch) from the lens [the port etc probably uses 2cm]
In Supermacro mode, the lens focuses to 1cm [0.4 inch] from the lens [probably inside the housing]
Note:
In supermacro mode, the zoom is automatically fixed.
The flash and zoom cannot be set in supermacro mode.
Using the Flash, p. 37
The Flash may not be available in certain camera settings.
http://www.olympusamerica.com/files/oima_cckb/XZ-1_Instruction_Manual_EN.pdf
​

It does not state whether the external flash could be used in supermacro, but until I hear from a user that it is, I would assume it is not usable in supermacro also. I don't think this is a fatal flaw, but it is one to be aware of. The difficulty of lighting a very close subject is well known. Some working distance is actually helpful, to avoid brushing the subject in current, and to position strobes. So the limitation of macro only might be workable.

But as I recall from the C series there were special settings that let the flash work in supermacro mode (Slave and Slow) on the 5050, 5060 and 8080 (not 7070). Apparently this capability does not exist in the xz-1. We will have to live with the 10cm working distance in Macro mode, unless the external flash fires via the hotshoe (and I know Ikelite will support external flash via bulkhead connector, someday).
______________________________________
And after the dive, enjoy a beach barbecue...

 

[Nemrod]

I never said the XZ-1 was not a good camera, I am saying we don't know yet and that there are a lot of claims being made that are unsupported.

Puffer, I don't think use as a rental camera for your students has much bearing on the subject of the thread and mounting cameras on rubber mats and what not, just saying. I would prefer to have something that did not require rubber bands and duct tape.

If you take a system approach rather than deciding based upon the price of the camera or the housing alone you might surprise yourself as to the negligible price difference.

FIX/Recsea - 800
Canon S series - 400
Inon D2000 (example)- 640
Tray - 100
Cables - 75
Inon UCL165 - <200
Fisheye or similar Dyron lens - 450ish
Total - $2,665

Canon DC-34 - <200
Canon S series - 400
Inon D2000 (example)- 640
Tray - 100
Cables - 75
Inon UCL165AD - <200
Inon H series with Dome II kit -<900
Total - $2,515


Oly housing - 300
Oly XZ-1 - 500
Inon D2000 (example)- 640
Tray - 100
Cables - 75
Inon UCL165-67mm - <200
Inon WAL100-67mm plus Dome II kit - <900
Total - $2,615

Certainly the above prices are estimated from web searches but I think you can see that similarly equipped, the price is only different by less than 200 dollars spread and I hate to say it, at thsi time, the FIX/Recsea with S series Canon is a proven, versatile, rugged and functional system and the Oly XZ-1 is not yet and has a few drawbacks like no rear ring control. For which I have to continue to disagree upon, yes you can work around with buttons, it is a crippling work around for a Manual shooter, an inconvenience for an Auto mode shooter.

Nothing would make me happier than the Oly XZ-1 to be a great system, in fact, based on what Sir Puffer learns with his, I may just buy one for round two of the Great Summer Wet Lens Shootout, if my leg were to ever get well enough.

N

 

[Nemrod]

XZ-1 and not ZX-1.
The flash works in macro, not super macro.
The rear dial will work just fine. You can't "scroll" with the wheel but using the up down left right buttons inside the wheel will do the exact same thing.

Well, forgive my dyslexia and that of the OP, it changes nothing.

N

 

[cardog]

Well, forgive my dyslexia and that of the OP, it changes nothing.

N

I'm sure that you would have NEVER corrected someone who called a Canon S95 a 95S.........

 

[Puffer Fish]

I think adding in the $900 for the Oly was rather unfair, as it should be able to use the identical lens the FIX does.

But I don't think that most people go out and just buy $2,000 worth of gear and start taking pictures.

Most people I know that are getting into UW photography want to start with the lowest cost, best quality camera they can (with the low cost being a bit more important).

They want to take nice UW images, and learn to see if they like doing it and like the results.

They typically either get one strobe or no strobe to start and if they get good results, and have fun doing it, will add the strobe...

Maybe two years later, they decide to add super macro (as the camera already does regular macro)... or they add a wide angle... usually not both, and then learn to use whichever they got.

Maybe, after three or four years, they add the one they don't have, and maybe an additional strobe....

Oh, we don't do rental gear (I will loan gear, but don't charge).. having a camera is a requirement for the class.

Here is my recommendation for a starter kit:

1. Camera -$499 (expect it to be a bit lower when readily available).

2. Case - $299

3. UFL-1 strobe $200. (this is not a very powerful strobe, but is does an amazing job of TTL with either an oly or Pany camera. And unlike other low cost strobes, has a sealed battery compartment)

4. Cable, tray and arms $160

If we can find a way to get the above at a lower cost, will do it.

That totals under $1200, and is one amazingly good starter set.

And the canon case is not a good case... the fix is a great case, but costs accordingly.

If that above is pushing someone's budget, then would recommend the new fuji with their case (which is much better made than the canon)... that would drop the price down to under $600. It shoots raw, and has a bigger sensor.. but like all camera's the devil is in the details, and I believe the oly is a better camera to grow with, if one can afford it.

I never said the XZ-1 was not a good camera, I am saying we don't know yet and that there are a lot of claims being made that are unsupported.

Puffer, I don't think use as a rental camera for your students has much bearing on the subject of the thread and mounting cameras on rubber mats and what not, just saying. I would prefer to have something that did not require rubber bands and duct tape.

If you take a system approach rather than deciding based upon the price of the camera or the housing alone you might surprise yourself as to the negligible price difference.

FIX/Recsea - 800
Canon S series - 400
Inon D2000 (example)- 640
Tray - 100
Cables - 75
Inon UCL165 - <200
Fisheye or similar Dyron lens - 450ish
Total - $2,665

Canon DC-34 - <200
Canon S series - 400
Inon D2000 (example)- 640
Tray - 100
Cables - 75
Inon UCL165AD - <200
Inon H series with Dome II kit -<900
Total - $2,515


Oly housing - 300
Oly XZ-1 - 500
Inon D2000 (example)- 640
Tray - 100
Cables - 75
Inon UCL165-67mm - <200
Inon WAL100-67mm plus Dome II kit - <900
Total - $2,615

Certainly the above prices are estimated from web searches but I think you can see that similarly equipped, the price is only different by less than 200 dollars spread and I hate to say it, at thsi time, the FIX/Recsea with S series Canon is a proven, versatile, rugged and functional system and the Oly XZ-1 is not yet and has a few drawbacks like no rear ring control. For which I have to continue to disagree upon, yes you can work around with buttons, it is a crippling work around for a Manual shooter, an inconvenience for an Auto mode shooter.

Nothing would make me happier than the Oly XZ-1 to be a great system, in fact, based on what Sir Puffer learns with his, I may just buy one for round two of the Great Summer Wet Lens Shootout, if my leg were to ever get well enough.

N

 

[cardog]

The rear control ring on the XZ-1 is used to access shutter speed (or app) white balance, ISO, etc....
To use these features with the PT-050 housing all you do is press the left,right, up, down buttons. In manual, which is all I shoot, up gives you shutter speed and left/right adjust up and down.
Pressing the down button will access ISO, WB, and all of the other features in the camera.
There is no "work around" like you need to do with the Canon housings when shooting in manual.