Canon G9 Dilemna

[Hotpuppy]

Howdy,
Just got back from a trip to Maui over the holidays. Great dives, great people...

I had a minor leak with my camera, took about an ounce of water. Camera worked for the rest of the trip and then stopped on the last day. I'm certain it was an o-ring issue and I replaced the o-ring and didn't have any more issues.

I just sent the camera to Canon for eval to see if it's a minor issue. I was up-front with them about what happened so they can look for residual salt contamination.

Camera starts to power up, projects lens, and then powers off. Pressing power button again retracts lens and powers off again. So it isn't dead, but it's not fine either.


Needless to say my confidence level in the case is having self-esteem issues. The o-ring didn't fail all at once, so this may be a super-shame on me. First dive it gave me grief on I found a few drops of water in the case. I thought maybe there was a stray fiber somewhere so I took the camera back to the hotel, carefully removed the o-ring and cleaned it and re-greased it. I suspect it was just worn-out.


I'm diving a Sea & Sea Duo 120 TTL, Heinrich and Weikamp TTL adapter, Canon Case, G9, and Optical Ocean tray/arm.

This was my first "trip" with the camera..... previous experiences had been okay including local dives and "hot tub" diving. lol. I don't have a pool, but I do have a 8 person hot-tub, so I did my pre-trip tuning on the camera/strobe setup in the hot tub at night.... it was comfortable, dark and underwater which is what I needed for tweaking the strobe.

Overall I got some pictures, but I'm not amused. The camera in "P" mode decided to use ISO 1600 which means my pictures are a tad grainy. When I did force the flash it worked sometimes, but it also got into "feedback" storms where it would repeatedly fire. I had planned on adding some electrical tape (aka miracle mask) to block stray light on the sensor. The firing storms did lead to some jokes on the boat as if the strobe size wasn't enough to laugh at. But hey, I paid $80 for it and it's slightly negative underwater so I get the last laugh.

I like to shoot some macro, mostly "snapshot" type stuff, and take video from time to time. Dive Photography has become my passion. I enjoy it.

The G9 setup was a way to play with dive photography that gave me some control but didn't require a SLR investment.

So, maybe Canon can fix it..... and this will be a $150 lesson.

If the G9 is repairable or I opt to replace it with another used one.... should I trust the Canon case ? Or go to a more dive-oriented case like an IkeLite? The Canon case lacks consideration for dessicant, but I think I figured out where to jam several packets of it - around the lens hood.

If it is not repairable, are my issues from the Camera? or the TTL Adapater? or the Strobe? I want to be able to take great pictures. The G9 is my first point and shoot. I have used SLR's before that. I've actually had Pentax gear up to the G9. I prefer to use TTL.

Canon has a trade-in program where they give you the best deal running for your dead camera if you buy a refurbished camera. They quoted me $400 for a EOS XSi kit (with lens) or $700 for a EOS 40D kit. Either would be very nice SLRs and those are great prices. It's a 26% discount for sending in a Dead G9 which is a tad more than it will fetch on Ebay dead.

I think it hinges on if the camera is dead, but I'm looking for feedback from more experienced divers.

I realize that a SLR+case is a $2k investment, and that yes, it might flood too, necessitating a $500 replacement. However, going on a dive trip and coming back with grainy photos because your flash wouldn't behave properly is a $3500 headache that can't be fixed for $500. My point here is that I'd rather spend the money and have equipment that lets me take good pictures. I want to balance this with leveraging what I have as long as it will do what I want.

Has anyone else seen the strobe storm issue ?
Thoughts on G9 vs. EOS XSi, T1i, 40d?

 

[slowhands]

If you had water damage, Canon will probably declare it Beyond Economical Repair (BER). They will offer you a replacement camera under their so called Loyalty Program. The closest offer would be a G11 refurb at $259 plus tax (that's what they offered me). Then a case, and you have a choice of Canon or Ikelite. The Canon runs about $180, the Ikelite about $625.

It's up to you, but personally I like to be able to rely on my camera without worries. At this point, I would write off your old setup, get the G11 refurb, and an Ikelite housing. Nothing made by man is perfect, but these Ikelite cases are much tougher than the Canon.

What went wrong?
So I'm not sure a post mortem on the case is helpful. I sure would like to know the cause.

Did you smooth the mold release lines on the Canon case? That can cause a few drops to enter. See:
http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/canon-corner/315202-canon-housing-leaks-easy-diy-fix.html

Since you can't find anything wrong with the O-ring but age, maybe you have salt crystals on a control pin. They can be there and cause a leak and you can't see them. You would have to remove and clean and re-lube all the buttons and levers. It's tedious, but in the course of doing it you might find the leak. See:
Matt Gieselman | Fixing sticky buttons on underwater camera housings

Another possibility is simply stress from being mounted on the tray, which caused bending/flexing in water. I don't know how robust the mounting hole area is, but the force of moving against water while attached to the tray could distort the housing enough to leak. This is a long shot, but that's another guess.

I hope you do find the cause so we can all learn from that and avoid it.

 

[Gilligan]

Another possibility is simply stress from being mounted on the tray, which caused bending/flexing in water. I don't know how robust the mounting hole area is, but the force of moving against water while attached to the tray could distort the housing enough to leak. This is a long shot, but that's another guess.

Not as much of a long shot as you may think.

If the back door of the housing is resting on the tray instead of just the housing "feet" it could cause the housing door to shift resulting in a leak.

I am convinced this is what happened to one of my old Olympus housings.

I explain it on THIS LINK

 

[Rescue Diver68]

If the G9 thinks something is blocking the lense when you power it up, it shuts back off. Maybe take a look in that area? In Bonaire the moisture muncher was blocking the lense slightly and it kept shutting off.

If the camera stays powered up while not in the housing then check for anything keeping the lense from expanding out in to the case.

 

[Hotpuppy]

Wow, these are all great pieces of feedback.

I'm voting for salt-crystals in the lens making it think it is sticking.

I like my camera to be as reliable as concrete.... always predictable and doing what it should.

I want a camera that is stupid-simple 80% of the time with space shuttle controls for when I want to tweak it. Hence the G9 as opposed to something simple like a Nikon L22 (my vacation acquisition for $89 at Wally-world that uses AA batteries and does 60% of what a G9 does).

 

[franktai]

Another point of failure which i have noticed on our last trip is the seal in the port lens - I haven't confirmed this with Canon, but what I notice on our dives is that the housing leaks a little bit of water consistently and I notice most of the water accumulating in the port/lens area (which is odd). I am convinced that the black rubber bits on the inside do not fully seal (my unit may be defective) and i am sending it back to Canon to replace/address.. more news when i get some!

Good luck with the G9, its a great camera system that can produce great photos underwater.

 

[Rescue Diver68]

I have the Ikelite housing and though it is a bit bulky compared to the Canon housing but I love it. No leaking fears or problems. The G9 has turned out to be a great camera and if you look at the price to buy new on Amazon it's double what I paid. It was worth it to me to invest in the Ikelite housing.

I hope you'll post your pics.

 

[Hotpuppy]

Not as much of a long shot as you may think.

If the back door of the housing is resting on the tray instead of just the housing "feet" it could cause the housing door to shift resulting in a leak.

I am convinced this is what happened to one of my old Olympus housings.

I explain it on THIS LINK

Your pic shows what it should be doing.... I thought it was a stress point so I repositioned the housing on the tray in a way that the door can't touch the tray. I just thought for sure it would wind up touching.

I did not smooth the mold marks, but I also didn't see them as an issue.

I am firmly convinced that the issue was the o-ring. I believe that the o-ring compressed because I stored the case with the o-ring in for 6 months. I believe that it was marginal and allowed a few drops in and that when I removed and regreased and reseated it, I may have placed a slightly more compressed area from a corner along a straight section. I believe this led to a water intrusion at 60 feet amounting to about 1 ounce. I turned the camera off at this point and held it lens down to keep water away. I believe that I then became focused on the dive and forgot about the camera when I reboarded the boat. As such I allowed someone to take the camera and put it in the "tub" where it proceeded to slosh for an hour with several other cameras. Thoroughly my bad.

When I got back to the hotel, the camera had moisture on the battery and memory card. I cleaned it as best I could and then let it sit overnight. It should have been DEAD.... it kept ticking for the rest of my dive vacation and died on the last day.... so that's all anyone can ask for.

It sat out a day for diving, and them my extra o-rings caught up with me. I had forgotten the extra o-ring and strobe o-ring and had them sent overnight. The housing was waterproof at 133 feet at Molokini. We went down to "shark condos" for a couple of minutes before working our way back up. If 133 FSW didn't pop the seal, nothing else should have. That's nearly 1 meter over it's rating. That suggests to me that the seal was fine with a good o-ring and that the housing wasn't the issue.

I think that o-rings compress over time, so my new policy is simple. New Dive Trip = New O-Ring. Sure it's probably wasteful, but I can buy an awful lot of o-rings for the price of a camera.

 

[Hotpuppy]

The where-to from here is really dependent on the G9. I contemplated picking up another used one (this one was used)... but that is $300. I think the Canon case is ideal for snorkeling, but leaves something to be desired for diving. It can work, but I'm nervous about it. I like the idea of being able to send the case to Ikelite for $150 and have it overhauled and tested.

I still haven't figured out the cause of my strobe storms.... I don't know if the issue is in the strobe or the ttl-adapter. So when I assess the situation:
- I need a camera, Fix, Replace, Upgrade ($150 to $600) (Upgrade is to an EOS, probably not a G*)
- TTL-Adapter technology may or may not be capable of consistently producing good pictures. I think it is a stray light issue. If not then I may need to evaluate my strobe control method.

For now I think I'm going to stay with the G9. If I can get my existing camera repaired then I will repair it and keep it as a spare.....

So at the low end I think it is a $500 problem.

 

[Hotpuppy]

Just a quick note.... I went to the local Camera shop to play with a 50D. After all, hands-on research is important. I was able to survey the differences in the 50D and newer cameras.

50D and 40D have a crappy interface, but are very nice cameras. Very capable and dependent entirely on the glass you put into the mix. I ultimately want a SLR for diving. I just don't think I've exhausted what I can learn on a G9.

I picked up a Ikelite case on Ebay today for $285 Shipped. Even after I spend $150 on having it serviced by Ikelite (which really is maintenance not equipment costs) it's still a good value. I'll still hang on to the canon case... never know when I'll want to snorkel. The Ikelite case came with another charger and 3 batteries. That just sweetens the deal for me.

Now I will hunt down a good used G9 and consider repairing mine as a backup.