Canon G10 vs. G11

[scottfiji]

I let my dive buddy use the Olympus and I used the G10 on our last trip to Cozumel. His pictures were consistenly better than mine.

hey rajohn - thanks for sharing your experiences. Here's just a couple comments -

1) Cameras with long zoom ranges such as the G10/G11 often have trouble with close-up macro when using the internal flash

2) if you settings are wrong, you're close-up photos could be mostly ambient light, and they would look terrible. Perhaps you forgot to turn macro mode on. Right now it's difficult to say if it was the camera or user error, you'd have to post a photo with the shutter-speed, ISO, f-stop , time of day, white-balance setting, location and depth underwater.

 

[rajohn]

The first day I bought the camera I studied the manual, went out in the yard and tried to take closeups of flowers and other detailed foliage. I tried all the automatic settings, both macro and non-macro. Sometimes the pictures would be in focus but usually not. I then went back to the camera shop where I purchased it and one of their employees who gives their class on macro photography took me and the camera outside to a flower bed and tried to take closeup pictures of the blooms. Same result, sometimes they came out OK, but usually not. We then went inside and got anouther brand new G10 and tried it. Same result. He finally gave up and just said some cameras were better than others at this. Needles to say I wasn't very happy with this after the money I spent on the camera and the UW housing. Off to Cozumel I went. Used the automatic settings for underwater and tried both the macro setting and just staying further away and zooming in. Spotty results in both shallow, well lit conditions and deeper, not so well lit conditions. I tried both with the diffuser and without it. I found without it for some reason half the picture would have a dark shadow acroos the bottom. With the diffuser the shadow went away. I don't believe the focus problem was necessarily related to lighting as it didn't work in very good light either. Meanwhile my buddy was happily snapping macro pictures of Nudabrachs, seahorses and other fine detail objects with my old Olympus C-4000. His pictures came out beautiful. The G-10 did beat the Olympus in taking long range pictures of Barracuda, turtles, etc. It seemed to make better use of ambient lighting at a distance. I guess my next approach will have to be to use all the manual settings and set each shot up myself. That's the professional approach and I was hoping to avoid that. I was specifically attracted to the G-10 because it featured an automated program specifically for underwater. Unfortunately, it only works if you're not taking closeups.
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And here is a very similar picture taken with the Olympus

 

[AndyT]

If that is the EXIF data from one of your images then I can see a few things that may be an issue.
The shutter speed is 1/60 - too slow for close up and macro work. I usually try for 1/100 , 1/125 or higher. I don't know if the Canon has a slow shutter speed setting, but you can use this to prevent those slow shutter speeds.

Something else is that your aperture is set to f2.8 which gives you a shallow depth of field - for macro you should be at f8.0 or higher.

I have never really been satisfied with results from a compact flash camera set in Auto - manual gives you much better control over the end result.

 

[AndyT]

Addition to my post - it is possible to shoot at 1/60 shutter speed, but the higher speeds will help to eliminate camera shake as a source of blurry images.

 

[rajohn]

Addition to my post - it is possible to shoot at 1/60 shutter speed, but the higher speeds will help to eliminate camera shake as a source of blurry images.

Thanks for all your help. The photos I chose were probably not the best examples to make my point as I could have been moving and causing some of the problem. I chose those two because they were so similar from the two cameras. Actually in many of the G-10 photos part of the picture in the background would be in focus but not the main object of my attention in the foreground. I would hold very still and press the button half way down, wait for focus and snap the shot and still come out with a bad picture. I'm sure I'll learn to use this camera but the learning curve is apparently a little steep.

 

[scottfiji]

hey Rajohn,

I know you must feel frustrated.

I don't think its the camera. You should be able to get every flower photo nicely in focus. I think you should find someone to help you, other than the employee who helped you.

Also, I think you chose two very dissimilar photos in your post.

Scott

 

[rajohn]

Addition to my post - it is possible to shoot at 1/60 shutter speed, but the higher speeds will help to eliminate camera shake as a source of blurry images.

hey Rajohn,

I know you must feel frustrated.

I don't think its the camera. You should be able to get every flower photo nicely in focus. I think you should find someone to help you, other than the employee who helped you.

Also, I think you chose two very dissimilar photos in your post.

Scott

I realize the photos were not an exact match, I was just trying to show what happened. Unfortunately the photos I took here in the yard of flowers are all erased so I can't show you exactly what I'm talking about. Maybe when the weather clears up, I'll take some more of the exact same subject and post again.

 

[M_Bipartitus]

Focus is a typical issue in macro mode on most cameras. I'm curious if you are using a fixed focus point or letting the camera choose? I find it best to pick a specific point so I have a better chance that the camera focuses on what I want.

The best results are typically with strobe, a fast shutter speed and a smaller aperture (f8-f16). This should give a bigger range of what is in focus as well as reduce the effects of camera motion. As an aside, most serious photographers who do marco photography use a tripod and wind screens to try to eliminate movement, strobes, and remote releases.

 

[photog310]

The information regarding a lack of the G10 lens' resolution to match the tiny pixel pitch on the sensor is spot on. In addition, with tiny photosites, everything becomes more critical - movement, camera component alignment etc. Personally, I am very disappointed that Canon dod not make the G11 camera a 6mp camera, and using the advanced sensor technology from the new EOS iD Mk4. There is no substitute for a pure analog/digital signal originating from the photosite when it comes to dynamic range, color fidelity, and tonality. Noise reduction solutions inevitably just smear the artifacts and also degrade the fine image details, as well. So in the end, all you end up with is a bigger megapixel number on the box that means very little in terms of real life benefits. And of course, more megapixels (many of which are going to be meaningless crud) means more hard drive space, and slower processing times. In the event one needs a bigger print than 8x10, Genuine Fractals can be used to up size the image up to 4x with great results (as long as the original file is clean). Therefore, on the rare occasions you want to print a 13x19 or 16x20 print, you could do so from a clean 6mp file, and not have the overhead of tons of larger files of everything you shot hanging out on your hard drive. Someday, maybe Canon will give us the dream point-and-shoot G12, which to me is as follows:
a) 6mp for great tonality and color fidelity up to 8×10
b) Same sensor technology as used in 1D Mk4
c) Same sensor size as on current G10/G11
d) Clean ISO 3200, 12 stops of dynamic range
e) RAW only - no jpeg, no picture styles
f) Sturdy weathertight sealed body for use in driving rain
g) 4x Optical zoom, f/2 - f/4 aperture range
h) Upgraded lens quality with L coatings for flare control
i) In-body IS, like the G10/G11
j) No fragile swivel screen to get ripped off body, thus rendering camera useless
k) G10 body style, not G11 body style
l) Upgraded low light auto focus sensitivity
m) Faster responsiveness, reduced shutter lag
n) 640×480 video, but with AF during video
o) No camera buzzing to degrade audio
p) Built-in wireless file transmitter with 300’ range and encryption
q) GPS geotagging
r) Price point: $1500 - $2000
I need wireless transmitting so that in the event I am forced to hand over my camera, an assistant 300’ away will have already transmitted my images via a satellite phone.

 

[Peter Guy]

At a price point of $1500-2000 I'm sure Canon will own that whole market.