Canon 7D used as a video camera

[hammerhead man]

I have a friend that takes underwater video and wants to upgrad to HD. He talked to a video guy at Penn Camera who told him he should consider the Canon 5D or 7D. That DSLR camera can take 1080p live video. I was concerned about whether the camera would be able to take video througout the entire dive. It would be great to have the flexibility of taking stills as well as video. Does anyone have any experience or knowledge about using this camera for video?

Regards,

Bill

 

[ronscuba]

Topside video is pretty much universally agreed to be fantastic. I love mine.

Underwater, opinions are split. If you search on here and on wetpixel, there are several threads discussing it. UW video issues include, difficulties with focus, white balance, zoom, and housing handling.

In general, people with UW photo backgrounds are praising the positives, while people with UW video backgrounds don't like the limitations. I have not heard of any UW videographer making the switch from camcorder to camera for UW video shooting.

 

[hammerhead man]

Thanks Ron for the info. I checked your videos out and they are fantastic. What kind of HD camera and housing are you using. The Galapagos video was so clear and had a lot of color. Does the housing have a red filter in it? I also assume that you were able to adjust the white balance as well. I've been to the Galapagos twice and you don't get the reds that I saw in the video when you are sitting on the rocks 60 feet down checking out the action.

Regards,

Bill

 

[hammerhead man]

Ron, I went back to your video site and discovered (don't know why i didn't see it the first time, I'm too old i guess ) that you use the Sony FX7 camcorder. You are obviously a great videographer, as evidenced by what is on your video site. It would appear that you have had the camera for a few years, based upon your experience if you could have any camera that is in the price range of the FX7, would you still get the Sony or is there another HD camcorder that you would buy. Also, I assume that the videos i saw were shot using a wide angle lens, what lenses would you recommend for the camcorder.

Regards,

Bill

 

[ronscuba]

Thanks for the compliments Bill.

All Galapagos videos were shot with a super wide angle lens (super expensive too). All Indonesia, Belize and Roatan were shot with a flat port or standard dome (both cheap).

Short answer is, I would buy an inexpensive Ikelite system with either a Canon or Sony consumer camcorder or a used FX7, with Gates housing, if I found a good price.

Long version, keep reading.

In my humble opinion, now is not a good time to spend a lot of money on a UW video system.

The Sony FX7, FX1, V1, Z1 are all 3 chip, discontinued tape based camcorders. They fell into the prosumer category of camcorders and had housings available from the main housing manufacturers.

Although discontinued, I think they shoot better underwater video than any of the current consumer camcorders and are pretty close to the current pro camcorders (Sony EX1 for example) UW. Close enough that unless you are a pro looking to sell footage and need the pro formats, the extra costs of the cam and housing are not worth it. I am not aware of a housing for the newer prosumer camcorders.

The consumer cams look great topside, but UW, 3 chips and easy access to the manual controls makes a big difference. Consumer cams are nice and small, but that makes access to the manual controls UW a nightmare.

For the used route, I would allocate some money to send the housing and camcorder in for servicing and consider that money part of the cost of buying the system. Gates housings are built to last and their service is fantastic. For the used route, it is the only housing brand I would consider.

If I could not find a good price on a used FX7 Gates system, I'd go with a cheap Ikelite.

If you have any other questions, I'd be happy to try to answer.


Ron

 

[hammerhead man]

Thanks for the reply Ron, so when would be a good time to invest in a camcorder and what would you get? Also, I am a little confused regarding your comment that the HDR-FX7 has been discontinued. Sony is not showing on their website that the HDR-FX7 is discontinued. In fact, the Sony Website is showing the HDR-FX7 as being a "new product."

This may be a dumb question, but I am curious regarding your hammerhead shots. The shots seemed to show that the sharks came in pretty close, and since you were using a super wide angle lens, the sharks must have come in really close! How did you get them to come in that close? We kept scaring them away with our bubbles.

Regards,

Bill

 

[ronscuba]

Thanks for the reply Ron, so when would be a good time to invest in a camcorder and what would you get? Also, I am a little confused regarding your comment that the HDR-FX7 has been discontinued. Sony is not showing on their website that the HDR-FX7 is discontinued. In fact, the Sony Website is showing the HDR-FX7 as being a "new product."

This may be a dumb question, but I am curious regarding your hammerhead shots. The shots seemed to show that the sharks came in pretty close, and since you were using a super wide angle lens, the sharks must have come in really close! How did you get them to come in that close? We kept scaring them away with our bubbles.

Regards,

Bill

The FX7 was discontinued and then brought back to market because it fills a nitch (tape based, prosumer, relatively affordable). At $1,999 it's still a pretty good camcorder, but surpassed by others at the same or lower price. It records to tape at 1440x1080 resolution. Today's camcorders record to media cards at 1920x1080 resolution.

You could buy a new FX7 and new Gates housing. If I was diving and shooting UW 100+ dives a year I would get one. The older technology wouldn't bother me because I would get my money's worth of use out of it in a relatively short time. But that is not my situation. What is yours ? How often do you plan to shoot UW ?

When is a good time to invest ? Depends on the technology, how much you want to spend and the big trump card, the housing manufacturers. Nothing out there for UW right now excites me. The current video buzz is DSLR cameras for video. However, that is topside. I am not a fan for UW use.

If you are just starting, start small, inexpensive and skip the lights until you get some experience. Just because you can afford to spend the money doesn't mean you should. I gave my recommendation of an Ikelite with consumer cam or a used FX7 at a good price. Can afford more than this ? Spend it on diving at good locations, shoot video and get experience.

Keep in mind, these are just my opinions and there are plenty of experienced people out there.

As always, I enjoy answering questions and offering my views.

Oh, the hammerheads. I got real close to everything in Galapagos. Touching distance. For the hammerheads and eagle rays, I always positioned or slowly moved myself out in front of our dive group. I always breath and move slowly. After a while it seemed like the animal life didn't notice or care about me. When they moved quickly, it was in reaction to the divers positioned behind me.

 

[KiiY]

Hi, Bill and Ron.

Sorry to jump in mid-conversation.

I love HDSLRs for video... above water. But the product niche is in its infancy and there are many things the manufacturers still need to work out. There are also a few factors that, for me, rule them out for underwater use.

Disclaimer: I haven't actually used any HDSLRs underwater because I don't see them as viable alternatives yet, and so I haven't been willing to invest in a housing. My comments below are all based on their technical and practical limitations above water, and speculation on how that translates underwater.

- Depth of field. A lot of the buzz surrounding HDSLRs for video is their very shallow depth of field which is a by-product of their large image sensors compared with traditional video cameras. This shallow DOF can give a much more film-like look to videos and allow you to blur the background thus focusing attention on your subject. Underwater this shallow DOF could be a problem and the ability to blur the background is somewhat moot when most of the background is already a vast blue canvas. Close ups of marine life inherently already have shallow DOF and the even shallower DOF of HDSLRs could make achieving and keeping accurate focus very difficult.

- Lack of / poor auto focus. The Canon HDSLRs either 1) can't autofocus while recording video, or 2) have excruciatingly slow AF ability as the camera sloooowly advances the focus motor and tries to achieve sharp focus. The Lumix GH1, GF1, and G2 have contrast detect AF systems and are much better in this regard, but they have other limitations as well.

- Recording time. Canon HDSLRs are limited to about 10 minutes per take and stop recording when this limit is hit. This may or may not be a problem, depending on your friend's shooting style. The GH1 can continuously record until the card is full (not sure about the GF1 and G2, but I assume they are the same).

- Compression artifacts. Many of the memory card HDSLRs, compact cameras and consumer handycams are not so good at keeping up with lots of fast motion. For above water use, this is not a problem if you hold the camera reasonably steady... but if you're floating along underwater and the entire frame is constantly moving, I suspect a lot of cameras will be hard pressed to keep up and you may end up with blocky video artifacts all over the scene.

...

All that said, I guess it really depends on what your friend wants from his videos.

If he is serious about quality then he really needs to follow Ron's advice and go with a prosumer level camera that produces superior quality recordings and gives manual controls. The downside is that these systems can be very expensive and they are big and heavy.

If he just wants to record the overall experience of a dive, then there are all sorts of inexpensive possibilities. I have a Sony HC1 and Ikelite housing which provides pretty good results in a fairly compact size. Something equivalent might be one possibility.

Or for the ultimate in convenience and fairly decent quality, you could look at digicams that shoot HD video. Most all of these max out at 720p, though. For vacation videos, I've just ordered a GoPro HD Hero which shoots 1080p and could be the ultimate underwater "fun cam"... once the blurry focus is solved with a DIY fix.

 

[hammerhead man]

thanks ron and KiiY, my friend has been taking underwater video for 5 years now and owns a Sony with housing and lights; however, it only records SD and he wants to upgrade to HD. He really wants a very good camera and would like a Gates housing to along with it. He intends to get a whole new system (camera, housing, and lights). He is my dive partner (I shoot stills) and we go on 1-2 dive trips a year. He also uses the camera for top side video as well. He understands that he will have to invest several thousands of dollars on the system. Diving and underwater videography/photography are our hobbies, and we really enjoy doing both.

Ron/KiiY, based upon the camcorders currently out there and the availablility of housings, do you all think the FX7 is the best option (for argument's sake let's put a limit of around 8K for the entire system, camra, lights, and housing)?

Regards,

Bill

 

[ronscuba]

Sorry, I forgot this thread is about your friend, an experienced shooter. What kind of housing, camcorder, lights, does he have now ? What does he like to shoot ? Macro, wide, standard ? Where do you dive ? Does he have any videos he can show us ? It would help see his shooting style and where to spend the $$.