Canon 450D versus Canon 40D - HELP!

[Mucksavage]

Hello Canon Experts.

I am on the verge of investing in either a Canon 450D with Ikelite housing, then I decided to go nuts and buy the Canon 40D (will be great topside too obviously) with Ikelite Housing but then the retailer confused me suggesting the 450D is better as it has a more sophisticated autofocus system while in 'Liveview' mode - good for underwater.

IO'm not worried by price so which should I go for? Obviously I want this camera to last a long time above and below water but I take my underwater photography more seriously.

All advice appreciated.

 

[alcina]

At the prices the 40D is right now, the 40D as long as the housing still fits in your budget.

40D hands down, really.

The 450D is an excellent camera, but the 40D is still superior and it's like $100ish more right now while the rebates are on. Mad if you don't, imho.

BTW - never turned my liveview on for underwater and only turned it on once while I was sticking the camera out of an airplane for aerial surveillance photos.

 

[Christian]

The 40D is a so called 'pro-sumer' model and the 450D is a consumer model. I'm not a Canon specialist, so I don't know the details, but generally the 40D has a lot more flexibility - more wheels/buttons for direct access to various controls without fiddling into the menue, better autofocus, sturdier built... Because of fewer control options and depending on the UW-housing (Ikelite in your case), the simpler camera models are a bit more (sometimes a lot more) cumbersome when you want to switch between e.g. different AF-programs or even such vital things as changing aperture or shutterspeed. Don't know what the case with Ikelite, but you should check it out before deciding.
Also depending on what you already got. If you're to invest in a complete set-up with everything from camera, lenses, strobes, arms to rechargeable batteries and computer software, the camera body will only make up for a small percentage of the total budget. Do a careful total budget calculation and then decide.

good luck

Christian

 

[Mucksavage]

Great advice so far, thanks very much.

Well I am thinking Ikelite as its come recommended - again alternative opinions most welcome and any advice on strobes etc won't go astray!!

 

[Zeeman]

Don't worry about live view. The viewfinder works better. I could never shoot Pygmy Seahorses before I had a DSLR, could never see them on the screen, but I can pick them out fairly easily with my 400D viewfinder, it the 450D and 40D both have much better viewfinders. I'd go the 40D.


Z...

 

[Kim]

You might want to read this:
Canon EOS 450D / Digital Rebel XSi Review: 1. Introduction: Digital Photography Review

 

[dhaas]

Mucksavage,

Many good insights, and here's mine after shooting BOTH the Canon 40D (a customer's rig I delivered and trained him on) and my own current lowly little Canon 450D (Canon Rebel XSi)

1) Alcina is right that with rebates the 40D body is very close in price to the NEW 450D. S at $799 for the body or $899 with the NEW 18-55mm IS kit lens (highly recommended!) you are paying top dollar for the newest gizmo out there in the 450D. Both have Canon's DIGIC III generation processor and this makes a great difference in the resulting photos from either camera. With the 450D you DO get 12.2 Megapixels and Canon's legendary CMOS sensor and continually improving with each generation noise suppression algorithms. Read various camera reviews at Digital Camera Reviews and News: Digital Photography Review: Forums, Glossary, FAQ and Steve's Digicams - Main Menu and see how well this little rocket works.

2) Live VIEW on either camera will not be that useful underwater. The 40D actually has a bit clunkier Live View button pushing scenario than the 450D. I tried the 450F Live View in a pool last week and while it MIGHT be useful for sessile macro critters I will still shoot through my viewfinder

Get a black silicone low profile mask and practice "seeing" the edges of your viewfinder and use either Canon model's HUGE 3" screen for any menu changes and reviewing your pics. The Ikelite' housing's Super Eye will make either work just fine.

By the way, the 450D viewfinder while still a Penta-Mirror versus the Canon 40D Penta-Prism is much brighter and easier to see than the XTi model preceding it. But hell, I have used them all UW: Canon 5D, 40D, 20D , 30D, Digital Rebel, XT and XTi and made photos with them all.

3) AF mode on 450D has cross type sensors on the center point only, 40D on all sensors. Not a biggie if you use your camera enough and practice AF focussing. I wear glasses and have an Atomic low profile Rx mask and I find either viewfinder adequate.

4) Having a second "Command Dial" rear control on 40D you'd think is Nirvana according to some UW shooters over ONE Command Dial as the 450D has. Holding in a little button with your thumb (surface use) or the "press in and it holds" control Ikelite implemented from the first original Canon Digital Rebel mode works fine.

Good underwater photography is more about setting up a shot and then minimizing parameters to adjust when that grouper yawns, shark swims by, angelfish is teasing you in and out of a hole, etc.

I shoot "M" manual mode when paired with Ikelite's TTL system and DS 125 strobes that STILL give me TTL fill in flash much faster and easier than any manually adjusting mumbo jumbo......

5) Camera weight.......I'm lazy and after traveling a LOT and usually wanting to have two camera bodies eventually (one in the housing, one for surface shooting and back up) I purposely chose the 450D. And this was after going back and forth in my mind for several months. I LIKE the lighter weight meaning I will take my camera places I might leave a heavier slightly more bulky rig behind.....

6) Build quality is something I read about over and over as reasons for a heavier, sometimes more costly model. Yet after owning the original Digital Rebel, TWO Rebel XT and XTi bodies with over 20,000 clicks on each in a year and now the XSi (450D) I have never wanted for any more ruggedness. The 450D even has a bit more solid feel to it than previous "consumer" models. My recommendation is to spend more $$$ on lenses! That said, the 40D is a great camera......

Either model you can't go wrong. Just don't buy something because people will think it looks or is touted as more "professional". What hogwash.........The only thing that counts is your photos. I se a lot of "snapshots' taken with thousands of dollars of equipment.

And I also see people shooting and selling work with a Canon G9, and other lower priced cameras every day.

Hope I didn't confuse you

dhaas
David Haas Underwater Photography

 

[Christian]

Mucksavage,

Many good insights, and here's mine after shooting BOTH the Canon 40D (a customer's rig I delivered and trained him on) and my own current lowly little Canon 450D (Canon Rebel XSi)

1) Alcina is right that with rebates the 40D body is very close in price to the NEW 450D. S at $799 for the body or $899 with the NEW 18-55mm IS kit lens (highly recommended!) you are paying top dollar for the newest gizmo out there in the 450D. Both have Canon's DIGIC III generation processor and this makes a great difference in the resulting photos from either camera. With the 450D you DO get 12.2 Megapixels and Canon's legendary CMOS sensor and continually improving with each generation noise suppression algorithms. Read various camera reviews at Digital Camera Reviews and News: Digital Photography Review: Forums, Glossary, FAQ and Steve's Digicams - Main Menu and see how well this little rocket works.

2) Live VIEW on either camera will not be that useful underwater. The 40D actually has a bit clunkier Live View button pushing scenario than the 450D. I tried the 450F Live View in a pool last week and while it MIGHT be useful for sessile macro critters I will still shoot through my viewfinder

Get a black silicone low profile mask and practice "seeing" the edges of your viewfinder and use either Canon model's HUGE 3" screen for any menu changes and reviewing your pics. The Ikelite' housing's Super Eye will make either work just fine.

By the way, the 450D viewfinder while still a Penta-Mirror versus the Canon 40D Penta-Prism is much brighter and easier to see than the XTi model preceding it. But hell, I have used them all UW: Canon 5D, 40D, 20D , 30D, Digital Rebel, XT and XTi and made photos with them all.

3) AF mode on 450D has cross type sensors on the center point only, 40D on all sensors. Not a biggie if you use your camera enough and practice AF focussing. I wear glasses and have an Atomic low profile Rx mask and I find either viewfinder adequate.

4) Having a second "Command Dial" rear control on 40D you'd think is Nirvana according to some UW shooters over ONE Command Dial as the 450D has. Holding in a little button with your thumb (surface use) or the "press in and it holds" control Ikelite implemented from the first original Canon Digital Rebel mode works fine.

Good underwater photography is more about setting up a shot and then minimizing parameters to adjust when that grouper yawns, shark swims by, angelfish is teasing you in and out of a hole, etc.

I shoot "M" manual mode when paired with Ikelite's TTL system and DS 125 strobes that STILL give me TTL fill in flash much faster and easier than any manually adjusting mumbo jumbo......

5) Camera weight.......I'm lazy and after traveling a LOT and usually wanting to have two camera bodies eventually (one in the housing, one for surface shooting and back up) I purposely chose the 450D. And this was after going back and forth in my mind for several months. I LIKE the lighter weight meaning I will take my camera places I might leave a heavier slightly more bulky rig behind.....

6) Build quality is something I read about over and over as reasons for a heavier, sometimes more costly model. Yet after owning the original Digital Rebel, TWO Rebel XT and XTi bodies with over 20,000 clicks on each in a year and now the XSi (450D) I have never wanted for any more ruggedness. The 450D even has a bit more solid feel to it than previous "consumer" models. My recommendation is to spend more $$$ on lenses! That said, the 40D is a great camera......

Either model you can't go wrong. Just don't buy something because people will think it looks or is touted as more "professional". What hogwash.........The only thing that counts is your photos. I se a lot of "snapshots' taken with thousands of dollars of equipment.

And I also see people shooting and selling work with a Canon G9, and other lower priced cameras every day.

Hope I didn't confuse you

dhaas
David Haas Underwater Photography

I guess Canon can stop making the 40D and just sell the 450D, as it seem to be better in all aspects

cheers

 

[dhaas]

Mucksavage,

Christian's comment I'm sure was made in jest as the 40D will still be made for awhile. And it is a fine camera!

My numbered list only pointed out some things to be considered when everyone always seems to push the more expensive, bigger, heavier, etc. option. With rebates the 40D body is very close in price to the 450D. So that should also weigh into your decision.

Whichever model you decide on, the Ikelite housing and their eTTL II circuitry combined with their DS Substrobes will minimize frustration once you learn to use it.

Good luck!

dhaas

 

[edge900rr]

I have a 20D and love it. When I bought it 2 years ago I was debating between the 20D and the 350. Big selling point on the 20D was the way it fit in my hands. The 350 was a lot smaller and harder for me to hold comfortably. I think that the 450 is still about the same size as the 350, so if you have big hands you are going to want to add a battery grip onto it so it is easier to hold (not a problem underwater but on the surface it will make a big difference).

The only downside to the DSLR's is a lot of places wouldn't let you take them in (sporting events, concerts). They are considered "professional" camera. They usually say that any camera with a detachable lens over 3" long are not allowed.

anyway...my 2 cents.