Cancellation of booked trips

[jjmochi]

When you decide to open a business in Indonesia you agree to take on the country risk of operating in Indonesia. When it is the Indonesia government making it impossible for guests to come, IMO that is 100% the operator's problem and they should cover the costs. They cannot legally host foreigners if foreigners are banned (for example as in Sorong) - as is the case for airlines. This is the bare minimum.

If Indonesia as a whole is open and it is the traveller's host country that is preventing travel, then perhaps there is more room for debate as to what flexibility should be offered. I am still of the view that a customer centric shop should allow reschedule, but perhaps you can argue they should try their insurance first since it is a problem unique to them and does not affect the dive shop as a whole.

On the other side of the spectrum, if travel is possible but the customer decides to voluntarily cancel for fear of the virus, then I would agree you have no obligation to deviate from your normal cancellation terms. The customer centric shops may still go above and beyond and have sympathy to allow a reschedule, but that would not be the expectation.

I wonder what your policy is if someone is feeling unwell or exhibiting symptoms- do you still ask them to come or do you offer a reschedule to avoid infecting the whole staff and other guests? I don't see this as any less important than approach to dive safety. Do you have enough hand sanitizer and cleaning supplies to truly serve guests in a safe manner?

 

[Centrals]

Scary stuff. Americans are used to that sort of thing being a crime, hence the expectation that it isn't going to be the case.

Spent all the money and then pull the shutters down afterwards.
All those reschedules, vouchers etc etc are useless.

 

[Blackcrusader]

Spent all the money and then pull the shutters down afterwards.
All those reschedules, vouchers etc etc are useless.

If a company claims they cannot refund the money as it is already spent before the customer has arrives then that would be illegal in many countries. It's called trading while insolvent. We only spend funds after our guests have departed.

 

[chris kippax]

A better solution may be to hold that persons deposit/payment once they have cancelled and release it if some else takes their spot.

 

[Centrals]

If a company claims they cannot refund the money as it is already spent before the customer has arrives then that would be illegal in many countries. It's called trading while insolvent. We only spend funds after our guests have departed.

Illegal in many countries: NOT everywhere.
How am I going to press charge if that happened outside my own country?

 

[pclark2]

When you decide to open a business in Indonesia you agree to take on the country risk of operating in Indonesia. When it is the Indonesia government making it impossible for guests to come, IMO that is 100% the operator's problem and they should cover the costs. They cannot legally host foreigners if foreigners are banned (for example as in Sorong) - as is the case for airlines. This is the bare minimum.

If Indonesia as a whole is open and it is the traveller's host country that is preventing travel, then perhaps there is more room for debate as to what flexibility should be offered. I am still of the view that a customer centric shop should allow reschedule, but perhaps you can argue they should try their insurance first since it is a problem unique to them and does not affect the dive shop as a whole.

On the other side of the spectrum, if travel is possible but the customer decides to voluntarily cancel for fear of the virus, then I would agree you have no obligation to deviate from your normal cancellation terms. The customer centric shops may still go above and beyond and have sympathy to allow a reschedule, but that would not be the expectation.

I wonder what your policy is if someone is feeling unwell or exhibiting symptoms- do you still ask them to come or do you offer a reschedule to avoid infecting the whole staff and other guests? I don't see this as any less important than approach to dive safety. Do you have enough hand sanitizer and cleaning supplies to truly serve guests in a safe manner?

Since there isn't any official closing of the border, my hotel still views it as not Indonesia blocking guests from arriving. They are still being good with vouchers of 75% last I checked, but they are being clear that they don't view Indonesia as closed. What the government has done is a de facto border closer without an official one.

 

[Centrals]

Since there isn't any official closing of the border, my hotel still views it as not Indonesia blocking guests from arriving. They are still being good with vouchers of 75% last I checked, but they are being clear that they don't view Indonesia as closed. What the government has done is a de facto border closer without an official one.

COVID-19: Thailand to require all travellers to obtain health certificate for entry from Mar 22

Same in Thailand.
Border is still open but how to get in is another story.

 

[Blackcrusader]

Since there isn't any official closing of the border, my hotel still views it as not Indonesia blocking guests from arriving. They are still being good with vouchers of 75% last I checked, but they are being clear that they don't view Indonesia as closed. What the government has done is a de facto border closer without an official one.

Yeah you only need to get a medical check to prove you don't have the virus and then apply for a visa. The notification came so late for many they could not arrive before the cancellation of the visa on arrival was cancelled. Plus many countries have Indonesia on a do not travel except for essential business advisory. If I were to travel to Indonesia when I return I am required now to do a 14 day mandatory quarantine as Indonesia is considered level 3. I would not be covered by any insurance we have in Taiwan if I travel to any country that has a level 3 virus advisory and I got the virus.

Indonesian Embassies are not known for fast processing of visas when they are required. When I called their office in Taiwan their staff claimed they didn't even know about the Visa On Arrival cancellation and said I didn't need a visa.

 

[pclark2]

Yeah you only need to get a medical check to prove you don't have the virus and then apply for a visa. The notification came so late for many they could not arrive before the cancellation of the visa on arrival was cancelled. Plus many countries have Indonesia on a do not travel except for essential business advisory. If I were to travel to Indonesia when I return I am required now to do a 14 day mandatory quarantine as Indonesia is considered level 3. I would not be covered by any insurance we have in Taiwan if I travel to any country that has a level 3 virus advisory and I got the virus.

Not to mention I haven't seen any specifics on what the health certificate requires. Other countries with such requirements specify a negative test. In the US you shouldn't even being going to a doctor for anything other than an emergency, and you can't get a test unless you have all the symptoms (and even then not always). So a certificate would be difficult to get. Then I have read many reports of consulates and embassies not answering calls and requests for visas. So yeah...

While my trip is cancelled, I'm also curious if I would be violating state law if I went since the Illinois governor issued a shelter in place order and banned all but essential travel. Looks like the only ones who can leave the state are ones who live elsewhere. Could be reading that wrong, but no mater what it would be a bad idea to try now.

 

[Indah]

View attachment 575384 Have now made my banned list.
Aggressor
Damai
Oceanic
Mares
Hollis
Aqualung
Suunto

The list gets ever longer

We are still working on it how to solve it. I highly appreciate all the input in this threat.