Can you breathe from an Argon first stage?

[looka]

Hello,

***WARNING*** I'm new to scubaboard.

I've seen on the market some quite cheap argon first stage regs, one HP port, one LP port, they cost 40% less than an equivalent single-port air first stage.

I am assuming argon regs are not balanced. I am also guessing they are designed for lower gas flow than a standard balanced air reg.

Are they suitable/safe for a stage tank? (air flow should not be an issue when breathing at a shallow depth from one single second-stage).

What do you think?

 

[Dr. Lecter]

Question: Can you breathe [air] from an argon reg?

Best answer: It depends on the conditions in which it's used.

My answer: You try it and report back.

 

[Peter Guy]

While I am not able to answer your question from a technical POV, I'll just ask you, How much is your life worth? Do you really want to buy the absolutely cheapest reg around?

 

[Tigerman]

While I am not able to answer your question from a technical POV, I'll just ask you, How much is your life worth? Do you really want to buy the absolutely cheapest reg around?

If it reliably deliver the appropriate ammount of breathing gas.. why not?

I dont need to "be a Legend"...

 

[elan]

Hello,

***WARNING*** I'm new to scubaboard.

I've seen on the market some quite cheap argon first stage regs, one HP port, one LP port, they cost 40% less than an equivalent single-port air first stage.

I am assuming argon regs are not balanced. I am also guessing they are designed for lower gas flow than a standard balanced air reg.

Are they suitable/safe for a stage tank? (air flow should not be an issue when breathing at a shallow depth from one single second-stage).

What do you think?

Yes you can but...
The IP is usually much lower 70-90 psi from what I have seen.
In many cases they have no inlet filter so no filtration is provided.
The IP is less stable - on my salvo reg it swings about 30 psi from full to empty tank.
Some have HP ports some do not.so the question is why bother for so many troubles?

 

[looka]

My life is worth more than the 50 bucks you'd save. My question for you is, does breathing from a more expensive thing make your life safer?

The point here is not necessarily saving $50, it's more understanding how things work and why they are marketed one way or another. I'd like to know what i am buying. Is an argone reg just an unbalanced reg? Do they market it as "argon" to avoid cannibalizing their lucrative air reg market? or it's really a different thing that is not safe breathing from?

My experience with scuba is somehow limited, but one thing I have learned from mountaneering is that simple, cheap, rugged and old-school stuff is generally safer and less likely to die on you than the fancy stuff that innovative brands then to offer. I was wondering is the same is true for scuba gear.

Main purpose of the queestion is curiosity.

Thanks for your answers

 

[herman]

My life is worth more than the 50 bucks you'd save. My question for you is, does breathing from a more expensive thing make your life safer?

The point here is not necessarily saving $50, it's more understanding how things work and why they are marketed one way or another. I'd like to know what i am buying. Is an argone reg just an unbalanced reg? Do they market it as "argon" to avoid cannibalizing their lucrative air reg market? or it's really a different thing that is not safe breathing from?

My experience with scuba is somehow limited, but one thing I have learned from mountaneering is that simple, cheap, rugged and old-school stuff is generally safer and less likely to die on you than the fancy stuff that innovative brands then to offer. I was wondering is the same is true for scuba gear.

Main purpose of the queestion is curiosity.

Thanks for your answers

Odds are you can use then as air supply reg but not likely the best choice. You would be much better off finding an older reg and rebuilding it from a safety/cost/performance stand point. Now the main reason for your question, yea there is some truth to that. Many of the long lived older regs are as, if not more reliable than modern regs. An old Conshelf , MK-5/109 or Sherwood will go for many years with little care....not that this is a good idea but they will do it. With the modern "we got a tiny bit more performance out of this reg" also comes the cost cutting, cheaper materials and more parts to break problems. Do they (older regs)breath as good as a top of the line new reg, no but when properly tuned the average diver can not tell the difference. If you are interested in how they work there are a couple of good books on the subject. Do a search on Regulator Savvy and Maintance and Repair of Scuba Regulators, both are full of information.

 

[halocline]

While I am not able to answer your question from a technical POV, I'll just ask you, How much is your life worth? Do you really want to buy the absolutely cheapest reg around?

I would have expected a better reply from a scuba veteran like yourself. This question "how much is your life worth?" is routinely tossed around as a disguised sales pitch and is used to fuel the absurd hype that surrounds regulators. I'm sure you realize that diver judgement and behavior is what determines safety, not gear price. In this particular example you even preface your statement by saying you don't know whether it would work or not. So your response essentially is "if it's cheap it must be dangerous".

Getting back to the point of the thread, a balanced first stage on a deco bottle is not necessary nor necessarily even advantageous. But, you do need to provide a reasonable IP and air flow to the 2nd stage, and if elan is correct (likely) about the 70-90 PSI, it's too low to properly feed a normal 2nd stage.

An excellent, inexpensive, reliable stage/pony regulator would be a used MK2 with either a R190 (or similar) 2nd stage, or better, an old 109 metal case 2nd. It should be pretty easy to find this sort of set up for under $100. The old MK5 with 2 lp ports is another great idea, but unfortunately most of those had the old light yoke that's not a good choice for 3000PSI tanks.

 

[Peter Guy]

Halocline -- the reason I used that smart @ss comment was that the OP was asking the question solely because of cost. I am NOT in favor of buying gear based on price -- either high or low. You buy the gear you need.

 

[elan]

My life is worth more than the 50 bucks you'd save. My question for you is, does breathing from a more expensive thing make your life safer?

The point here is not necessarily saving $50, it's more understanding how things work and why they are marketed one way or another. I'd like to know what i am buying. Is an argone reg just an unbalanced reg? Do they market it as "argon" to avoid cannibalizing their lucrative air reg market? or it's really a different thing that is not safe breathing from?

My experience with scuba is somehow limited, but one thing I have learned from mountaneering is that simple, cheap, rugged and old-school stuff is generally safer and less likely to die on you than the fancy stuff that innovative brands then to offer. I was wondering is the same is true for scuba gear.

Main purpose of the queestion is curiosity.

Thanks for your answers

You will kind of see the same here. More expensive does not necessarily mean better.
As already mentioned if you buy some older regs like MK2,5 conshelves you can get a better bang for your buck.

I yesterday rebuilt an MK5 I got from one of the members and it appeared to be new old stock I bought it together with a D400 second for $100 (bragging... ) . One will have hard time proving me that a new MK25/S600 which is almost an order of magnitude more expensive, breathes better or is safer. 109 or 156 mentioned already could be a better second that many of the current production regs

So there are much nicer options out there than an inflation reg.