Can we take things from the ocean?

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TMHeimer

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Yes, the artificial reefs are magnets for sea life. They attract divers, who pay for airfare, rental cars, hotels, restaurants, and dive boats. Nobody would argue that there is not a financial incentive. The same argument can be laid for the presence of sea life, sharks, turtles, Goliath Grouper...
Agree on all points. I do think the financial reason is more that it costs a lot less for the gov't. to sink them rather than the alternative. But I have no facts to back that up, just a hunch.
 

doctormike

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Most artificial reefs are a net positive for the environment - much of the cost of sinking them goes to cleaning them up. Other types of wrecks can be environmental disasters. When I was on the Stolt Dagali last week, it was still leaking oil, and it has been since it hit the bottom in 1964.

Fortunately, the German artificial reef program was shut down in 1945, we don't seem to be getting close to any massive naval battles in the near future, and navigation has become a bit more reliable, even in fog, than it was in earlier days. So new "real" wrecks are becoming a scarce commodity.
 

TMHeimer

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Most artificial reefs are a net positive for the environment - much of the cost of sinking them goes to cleaning them up. Other types of wrecks can be environmental disasters. When I was on the Stolt Dagali last week, it was still leaking oil, and it has been since it hit the bottom in 1964.

Fortunately, the German artificial reef program was shut down in 1945, we don't seem to be getting close to any massive naval battles in the near future, and navigation has become a bit more reliable, even in fog, than it was in earlier days. So new "real" wrecks are becoming a scarce commodity.
Yeah, I know cleaning them up and making them as safe as possible for divers is probably the biggest part of the cost--I mean what else is there-- towing them to a spot and blowing holes in them like the Oriskany?
Do you agree that the cost is much lower than disposing of them on land and that's the real reason it's done?
I admit to being skeptical that the net positive for the environment (fish populations, etc.) had anything to do with why they started scuttling these ships. Yet when you read about them in scuba mags it seems it's all done for the environment. Like, remember the old 55 mph nation wide U.S. speed limit from 1974-86 (96 in the East)? Then there were those bumper stickers saying "55 saves lives". I'll bet saving lives had nothing to do with it-- the oil embargo did. I guess 70-75 limits since then are fine....
 

doctormike

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Yeah, I know cleaning them up and making them as safe as possible for divers is probably the biggest part of the cost

I think that we are about 1% of the reason that these things are sunk, the other 99% is for fishing. So other than the ones that become big dive destination draws, I'll bet that for a lot of them it's more about removing material that's hazardous for the ocean than about making them safe for divers. :)

Do you agree that the cost is much lower than disposing of them on land and that's the real reason it's done?

That I'm not sure about. I would assume that the net cost or profit would be based on what the ship breaker could get for scrap / salvage. The materials are apparently worth something...
 

TMHeimer

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I think that we are about 1% of the reason that these things are sunk, the other 99% is for fishing. So other than the ones that become big dive destination draws, I'll bet that for a lot of them it's more about removing material that's hazardous for the ocean than about making them safe for divers. :)



That I'm not sure about. I would assume that the net cost or profit would be based on what the ship breaker could get for scrap / salvage. The materials are apparently worth something...
Agree on these points.
 

BLACKCRUSADER

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I'm a Fish!
Nobody complains when I remove garbage from the ocean.
 

Centrals

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Fortunately, the German artificial reef program was shut down in 1945, we don't seem to be getting close to any massive naval battles in the near future, and navigation has become a bit more reliable, even in fog, than it was in earlier days. So new "real" wrecks are becoming a scarce commodity.
I can only think of one, Prinz Eugen II, but in very shallow water.
However there are still 7 of WWI vintage in Scapa Flow.
Potential hot spot for naval battle is pretty slim given the technology that both sides have. Black Sea, Gulf and Taiwan Strait?
 

lowviz

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I think that we are about 1% of the reason that these things are sunk, the other 99% is for fishing.
I couldn't agree more.

Fishing boats need a destination, clammers don't. I have no problems whatsoever with a cleaned and sunk artificial reef.

I used to book wrecks and quite often the boat full of hunters and gatherers would convince the cap to redirect to a reefed vessel. No prob, a goodie bag full of incredibly delicious blue mussels, carefully picked, would more than assuage my minor disappointment.

Note to anyone interested: Gently free each shell without yanking the 'beard' out of the animal. Use shears to cut the threads holding it in place. They keep several days in the fridge if you don't tear them apart. If you are on a really good boat, the cap will drag them for you on the way back.

Important: You collect your catch in international waters. Problem is that you have to land them. Now, you can't prove that they weren't taken in US state-controlled waters. I have a recreational shellfish license. Get one at any of the bigger fishing stores. Don't throw it away, that number is yours forever. Show the shop your old one and you get a new one very quickly.

Recipe:
A bottle of cheap slightly acidic white wine, minced garlic to your taste, same for real butter. Check your mussels for those that are open, even slightly. If you can't convince it to close then it is dead and throw it out. As soon as your pot starts to boil, add mussels and stir until all are open. Throw away the ones that don't open, they are also dead.
 

100days-a-year

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I couldn't agree more.

Fishing boats need a destination, clammers don't. I have no problems whatsoever with a cleaned and sunk artificial reef.

I used to book wrecks and quite often the boat full of hunters and gatherers would convince the cap to redirect to a reefed vessel. No prob, a goodie bag full of incredibly delicious blue mussels, carefully picked, would more than assuage my minor disappointment.

Note to anyone interested: Gently free each shell without yanking the 'beard' out of the animal. Use shears to cut the threads holding it in place. They keep several days in the fridge if you don't tear them apart. If you are on a really good boat, the cap will drag them for you on the way back.

Important: You collect your catch in international waters. Problem is that you have to land them. Now, you can't prove that they weren't taken in US state-controlled waters. I have a recreational shellfish license. Get one at any of the bigger fishing stores. Don't throw it away, that number is yours forever. Show the shop your old one and you get a new one very quickly.

Recipe:
A bottle of cheap slightly acidic white wine, minced garlic to your taste, same for real butter. Check your mussels for those that are open, even slightly. If you can't convince it to close then it is dead and throw it out. As soon as your pot starts to boil, add mussels and stir until all are open. Throw away the ones that don't open, they are also dead.


White wine, Pernod/Anisette/Ouzo/Raki etc..., lemon juice, garlic, butter, fresh basil and either a few tbsps of diced and lighly sweated shallots or onions . Season and pepper to taste. Sauce is similar to Carrabba's.

Eat the mussels with some semolina bread or some other rustic style bread or a baguette with a heavy crust. Soak up the crust in the sauce between a couple mussels at a time.

Worth the inevitable sting from the lemon juice on the scratches and nicks I always seem to get playing with shellfish.
 

Bob DBF

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Yeah, I know cleaning them up and making them as safe as possible for divers is probably the biggest part of the cost--I mean what else is there-- towing them to a spot and blowing holes in them like the Oriskany?

There is a documentary on the Oriskany sanitizing and sinking, if you can find it. They were predicting that no more large ships would become artificial reefs because of the cost of sanitizing the wreck. Opening up the wreck for sinking and divers was much easier.
 
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