Can someone please explain this oddity to me?

[Thalassamania]

????Um, I think you might want to read what's on NAUIs site about Master Scuba Diver. You appear to be referring to something a bit different than I was. True, NAUI says MSD is a course, but it covers almost exactly what is required for the PADI and SSI Master Scuba Diver ratings.

You missed the main point: "Gain the in-depth knowledge that will establish you as a recognized authority in your diving club or group. Hone your diving skills to the level of a professional NAUI Leader." Those who complete the NAUI MSD course have the same water skills and book knowledge as a NAUI Instructor, all that they lack is the "how to teach" material.

When you take a driving course you learn how to drive, but some courses get you ready for your DMV test, while others result in an SCCA ticket to drive seven liter cars at very high speed.

 

[Mark_J]

I know a 12 year old that just received her 1st Degree Black Belt, the style does not matter much just like the alphabet soup of diving organizations doesn't matter it's about the quality of the Instructor. I have close, first hand knowledge of another 1st Degree Black Belt, in his 40's, pretty good shape and has been active in martial arts for many years. Now does the 12 year old have the same skill levels that the 40 something does? Not really, he would probably be too embarrassed to admit if she did anyway. Although the techniques were taught to her she still needs much more practice, training and in some cases maturity. However, I would match that girl up against just about any other untrained 40 year old men and she would put them on their backs.

Don't compare the skill levels of a 12 year old with your own (if you're at the same 'level'). Compare them to an untrained individual...

 

[Thalassamania]

I know a 12 year old that just received her 1st Degree Black Belt, the style does not matter much just like the alphabet soup of diving organizations doesn't matter it's about the quality of the Instructor.

That's not the case for this discussion; the basic problem here is PADI's depauperation of the MSD. It's as though one dojo decided to start giving black belts to intermediates. I guess my family's a bit on the extreme side, my son does Aikido with a sensi that believes in two belts: white and black. He's OK with that and expects to get a new belt and his high school diploma at about the same time.

 

[Ocean One]

My$.02 It's just a CARD!!!!! signifying the meet the prerequisites for the CARD.
It gives them no additional responsibilities other than bragging rights to those that give a darn. It doesn't take them to the front of the class. Hopefully they are better divers from the additional classes in the long run... Don't be so offended by this, no one is going to take anything away from you. I don't disagree that some of what certifiying agencies (that's ALL certifiying agencies) do is for MONEY either...

 

[Rick Murchison]

Good post and I agree with the conclusions drawn. Do we have more than a dozen 12 year olds like this in this contry of 300 million?

Sure... if they had to. But we rarely reward performance anymore, only "needs." And, just like any animal, humans increase the behavior that gets rewarded. Reward needs, needs increase.
It ain't exactly rocket science
Rick

 

[Thalassamania]

no one is going to take anything away from you. I don't disagree that some of what certifiying agencies (that's ALL certifiying agencies) do is for MONEY either...

What they take is not from me but from us all.

 

[Mark_J]

That's not the case for this discussion; the basic problem here is PADI's depauperation of the MAD. It's as though one Tojo decided to start giving black belts to intermediates. I guess my family's a bit on the extreme side, my son does Akita with a sens that believes in two belts: white and black. He's OK with that and expects to get a new belt and his high school diploma at about the same time.

It is exactly the case for this discussion. Aikido, Jujitsu, Capoeira, Tae Kwon Do, along with many others all have varying beliefs as to what makes up the Black Belt requirements yet they are all very effective styles. It is the opinion of the Instructor that qualifies students to the level of Black Belt.

PADI is not denigrating the MSD 'title' any more than NAUI does with the AI by saying that an Assistant Instructor only needs 20 dives to assist with diving instruction.

The point is that the titles are rarely all that relevant and the comparisons should be made on the individual's ability, not what letters they attach to a plastic card.

 

[DandyDon]

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Sure... if they had to. But we rarely reward performance anymore, only "needs." And, just like any animal, humans increase the behavior that gets rewarded. Reward needs, needs increase.
It ain't exactly rocket science
Rick

Performance is not only not rewarded any more but in some places actually discouraged. Many schools have banned the practice of individual recognition for students. Remember the gold stars they used to hand out? Not any more because it makes the lazy and stupid kids "feel bad". Awwwwww. We have a high school that had 18 valedictorians! And one lawyer dad sued to stop the graduation because his precious child should have been ranked 3rd instead of 4th(in his opinion) or some such nonsense in a district in this state. Why should kids strive for recognition when they won't get it or it has been watered down because of political correctness or new age psycho babble theories. The worst part is though that even if they do strive and get the grades to go on to college many can't afford it because the scholarships have been given to illiterates, criminals, and dopers who can run or catch a ball. They then drop out early to enter pro sports and there was a wasted sum of money that could have been used to train someone to do something useful.

 

[MSUnderwater Divers]

I don't know if you have ever seen the NAUI Master Diver course or test but you don't just collect another card. The NAUI MSD Test is thorough, comprehensive, and requires work on your part to pass regardless of the instructor.

As for the too young stuff, I was 6 when I got my first pocket knife, 7 when I got my first .22 rifle. I was taught what they could do and to respect them and I wasn't babied. Its really not that big of a deal and tools and activities are only as dangerous as the instruction given the person and respect given said tool/activity.

(Now pruning shears on the other hand are extremely sneaky, dangerous objects just looking to take a bite out of your finger. Stupid, stupid pruning shears. )