Can someone explain the pros and cons to a AMATEUR!

[DavidHickey]

Decided to junk the piece of you know what 35mm camera I have. I'm going to buy a digital and I'm TOTALLY confused because I'm such an amateur I don't really know what you guys are talking about with the manual adjustments, raw imaging, and all that stuff. My photography exerience includes pointing, pushing a button and then downloading the pictures. From reading alot of messages I've came to the conclusion that your money is better spent buying a good camera and then housing as opposed to a package such as a Sea and Sea 8000 with strobe or a sealife camera. I would like to buy something that I can grow with and add to as I go "or as my wallet gets fatter" From what I've been reading it seems the top 3 choices are. Cannon Powershot 95 Fuji E900 and Olympus SP350. Now when purchasing any of those 3 cameras and a Ikelite housing, can you get decent pictures with just the built in flash or are you limited until buying a strobe? Can you add different lenses? Guess I'm just wondering about the flexibility of these type of cameras and housings compared to say a Sea and Sea package. And between the 3 cameras what are the pros and cons of each? I realize everyone probably has their favorite but is there any features that stand out on one as opposed to the other? The Fuji at this point in my inexperienced veiw stands out as it has 9mp and 4x optical zoom. AND were in the USA is the best place to purchase this equipment. Living in Ohio, I can't just walk into any store and find underwater housings and accessories. ANY help would be appreciated.
Thanks
David

 

[victor]

My 2c worth,
I am just starting down the road of underwater digital photography with limited Nikonos film experience.
Underwater you need to be close to your subject, water is your enemy, it absorbs different colors of light so that reds quickly disappear, and it supports particles that reflect the light from your strobe. You must have a strobe as below 30ft it is very dark.
Thus zoom is bad, short focal length is good, macro is good, wide angle is ok, all are difficult.
Macro is good because you get very close to your subject, minimum amount of water, however you have to nail the fish to the reef to get them to pose for you, unless you are Dennis the fish whisperer who hypnotizes them.
Wide angle means massive depth of field but equates to wide wallet, the lens is very expensive, however the dome to put on to your housing is even more expensive.

My thoughts were as follows.
I wanted a reasonable cost, wide angle, macro zoom, with hot shoe for TTL strobe and an inexpensive housing.
I ended up with an Olympus 8080. Not a bad camera however the design of the Olympus housing means I have to have a strobe or use available light. Not the best choice but I will live with it until I get a DSLR.

 

[Larry C]

Victor, you're better off with a strobe or available light. Built in flash is great if you're about 18 inches away, but otherwise you get either uneven, inadequate lighting or backscatter. In tropical, relatively shallow (40' or less) water, you're probably best off with available light and manual white balance. Elsewhere, you needed a strobe anyway. Invest in a really good one. The extra few hundred dollars will pay you back tenfold in better pictures and you might decide you don't need the DSLR.

David, there are a lot of good cameras available. Read the threads in the different brand sections of this forum to get a good idea of the plusses and minuses of all. The major advantage of digital is you get to see your mistakes instantly. You can correct your focus, lighting and settings on the spot. I don't profess to be a great photographer, but my shots have improved immensely by learning from my mistakes and reading carefully the posts on this forum for technique. It also pays to look at the pictures of others to see what and where they are shooting, what sort of lighting they are using, etc. Also, look at the EXIF info on pictures, of those who are using similar equipment to yours in similar parts of the world. (EXIF is available by right clicking to properties when the information is availabe. EXIF tells you the camera settings for a particular picture, including lens aperture and shutter speed). The people who post on the ScubaBoard are really good about answering questions about what eqpt. they use, distance from subject, lighting, shutter speed and aperture, etc. That said, there is no substitute for experience. Go out and dive constantly and take your camera on every dive. You'll get some really terrible pictures, but you'll improve by seeing where you messed up and how you took the good ones.

 

[Monkey Knife-fight]

I don't know about the other cameras on your list but you can get away with the internal flash on the E900. Sure, you have to get pretty close, but that's good practise anyway. Even with a strobe you want to be as close as possible to the subject. You can also take available light "scenery" shots that a strobe wouldn't help with anyway. A strobe will help make more shots possible but i used just the internal flash for awhile and took some pretty good pics.

Most digi cams (including the E900) can use external wet lenses on the housing. In general, though, you're gonna want a strobe before you get them. You can get a wide angle and take available light shots but the lenses will probably block the internal strobe to the point of uselessness.

Chris

 

[Gilligan]

David, as an amateur underwater photographer I can relate to your dilema over buying a camera and housing.

DSLR or point and shoot? Money can make that decision for you. DSLR will be way more expensive especially having to buy additional lenses. Of course the photos are better quality, but only after you learn how to use the camera as with any camera.

Manual controls for shutter speeds and lens openings are a must. Most decent cameras have that. RAW is not on all point and shoot cameras. RAW allows you much more control over processing your photo than the standard JPEG format.

Having said that I am still using two Olympus C4000Z cameras with thousands of photos on each of them in their respective Olympus housings. I also have a wide angle and close-up lens as well as an external strobe. I added those items over time.

IMHO you can't go wrong by purchasing a Canon, Olympus or Fuji camera. The Ikelite housing for them costs a little more than the same brand housings but it has an optional adapter that will allow for the addition of the 67mm wet-mount lenses.

When you dive with a DSLR you must decide ahead of time what type of photography you want to do since you cannot change lenses underwater. The point and shoots will allow you to do that.

For starters you can get great photos with a point and shoot using the internal strobe for macro shots and manual white balance (or RAW mode) for the non-strobe shots. A good software program is also a must for post processing.

I ordered my cameras online. That is the cheapest way to go. It is a little time consuming but necessary. The same goes for the accessories. If money is an object then check for refurbished cameras. Often they are nothing more than returns that folks changed their minds on. They are inspected by the mfg and re-packaged with a warranty. Both my cameras are refurbs. There is a warmer feeling when you flood a housing that contains a refurbished $200. camera versus a $500. one.

Good luck.

 

[rbwhite38]

As an amateur, I recommend the Sealife or Sea & Sea digital systems with the strobe. They are very basic and easy to use. I have a older sealife which has taken some great pictures. I currently have a Canon S30 and housing that I use because I wanted to do more with editing pictures and this camera does have a raw image setting. Unless you are going to be a professional photographer, keep it simple and enjoy your diving experience.

At least with digital you get immediate feedback so you can always snap again. Typically, I'll shoot 50 - 100 pictures on each dive and edit the goods ones with photo editing software.

 

[Peter Guy]

I've used two digitals underwater, the Minolta Xg and the Canon S80 -- both using the "branded" housing (and both housing probably made by Sea and Sea). I have used both of them with, and without, strobes and both of them in the tropics (40 ft+ vis) and Puget Sound (5 ft and better vis).

I shoot a dSLR on land and have played around with RAW but neither of those cameras has the option. (And my work on land has done nothing to convince me that RAW is superior FOR MY PURPOSES!!)

The upshot of what I've found? You can get very nice pictures (more than snapshots) without a strobe as long as you are using a diffuser on your internal flash. You can get BETTER pictures with a strobe -- and the better the strobe the better the capability.

The reality is the best pictures are taken by the best photographers -- not because they have the best equipment but because they have the best eye for a picture AND they have the best understanding of the limitations of their equipment.

Don't be afraid to buy online (Adorama, B&H Photo, Amazon, CostCo). I still think one of the best deals going right now is the Olympus SP350 for $199 at CostCo and the Olympus housing at Adorama for just about the same price.

 

[CompuDude]

If you don't think you're ever going to go beyond automatic point-the-camera-and-press-the-button modes, I recommend the Canon SD550, SD630 or SD700 in the OEM case. They'll take great pictures out of the box, they're tiny and portable and easy to use. You can add a strobe at a later date if you really want, but you'll do fine with the internal flash and diffuser plate that comes with the OEM housing. The Ikelite housing is a lot more bulky to haul around, and frankly the diffuser is not as good because the port is larger, blocking more of the internal flash's light, so you really do best with an external strobe with the Ike cases.

If you want to save a few bucks and get a larger (and thus cheaper) camera that has manual controls you'll never use, get the Canon A series cameras and again, the OEM case. You'll be happy either way.

 

[Tortuga Roja]

Hi David,

I would echo Gilligan's comments. They are well rounded and come from experience.

Let me add:

Raw capability should carry a lot of weight in your camera decision. Topside it is useful, UW it is the bee's knees. I know many, many UW photographers and I know of none that have seriously used raw that would ever give it up.

Since you are already thinking of moving up in the future, don't be afraid to get a good strobe. You will take that up with you.

Also, while cameras and housings will be obsolete before you take them underwater, wetmate lenses can likely stay with you if you move up to another compact camera. If you go to a dSLR, they will at least be sellable.

Also put weight on easy accessibility to important functions like manual controls. For this reason it is good to decide on the housing and camera before you buy either.


If you are serious about your photography, you will eventually end up using manual controls (at least prioity modes), a strobe(s), and raw files. I guarantee it. If you are not serious and will always be happy with just showing friends what you saw, none of that is necessary.



HTH

 

[CFordtran]

I know this thread is old...But, David, if you are still out there...What did you end up purchasing, any regrets or wisdom that you can share?

FYI...I am in the same boat, but I have been shooting pictures, SLR since 1984 (darkroom experience) and digital since 2001 and I am looking for a setup that will be my very first underwater rig. It is extremely tempting to just get an "all in one" setup like the Sea/Sea 8000 with all of the bells and whistles and just go for it. Getting some experience under my belt and THEN going highend once I get it down.

Charlie