Can people really get scuba certified without knowing how to swim?

[irmo]

In fact the only reason for the swim test is tradition.

As you can see reading this thread, there are many who think of swimming as being somehow a reasonable reaction to a diving emergency. It's not. It's foolhardy and dangerous. The swim test was removed because putting swimming in the middle of a dive course sent the wrong message about the appropriateness of swimming as a reaction to any diving situation. For that reason, and the reason of it not having anything to do with teaching diving in any sense, it was removed as a requirement.

The ocean is no place to swim, but it is a great place to dive.

Even your story proves the point. It was not swimming that saved lives, it was PFDs. Gear not skill.

Every year, 'swimmers' get pulled from the ocean in Hawaii by lifeguards. Inevitably, the comment is that the rescued person thought that since he could swim he would be ok. The lifeguards know better than to go in the ocean without gear, even though they are fantastic swimmers. And that's in situations where the person is in easy reach of the shore. Put them in a situation where dive boats go, and there is no way swimming would help them do anything but get themselves in trouble.

I'm not sure where the test was actually removed from the courses. It was included in my PADI OW course and the instructor gave the class the option to just swim or do MFS.

I've pulled a few people out of the ocean myself, and some of them did get in trouble because they thought they were better swimmers than they were. A standard test might have helped them see different.

I agree with you about the gear. If I had on my gear, no way I would drop it and try to swim out of trouble. That would be crazy. It’s finding myself in the water without gear that would be the problem. Is it likely? Probably not. Is it possible? Sure. Is it more likely for people who go out into deep water on boats all the time for fun? Why yes, I believe it is.

I keep thinking about the example of the two girls that Jill from Phoenix offered. They didn't want to remove their gear to climb back into the six-pack because they couldn't swim. The image I have in mind is that little boat flying across the water between dives with them sitting there in full gear because they can't swim...or maybe they dropped the BCDs and put on a life vest?

I maintain my original point, if you're doing anything that has you around deep water regularly, learn to swim.

 

[k ellis]

In fact the only reason for the swim test is tradition.The swim test was removed because putting swimming in the middle of a dive course sent the wrong message about the appropriateness of swimming as a reaction to any diving situation. For that reason, and the reason of it not having anything to do with teaching diving in any sense, it was removed as a requirement.

Not sure where you get that from but on page 40 of the PADI instructors manual it states "At some point before certification, have students complete a 200 meter/yard continuous surface swim or a 300 meter/yard swim with mask, fins and snorkel."

 

[k ellis]

I maintain my original point, if you're doing anything that has you around deep water regularly, learn to swim.

I agree and it was the best thing I ever did with out a doubt!

 

[beanojones]

Not sure where you get that from but on page 40 of the PADI instructors manual it states "At some point before certification, have students complete a 200 meter/yard continuous surface swim or a 300 meter/yard swim with mask, fins and snorkel."

And it used to say just
"students complete a 200 meter/yard continuous surface swim"

We fought, and won. Thus, the change to allow snorkel usage. Because watching people try and swim their way to safety in the ocean and instead immediately get themselves from a bad situation to a horrible situation, made many instructors realize that by putting swimming in a diving course we were sending the message that swimming was an appropriate reaction to a problem.

No one, no matter how good a swimmer they are, will survive in the open ocean if they try and swim to safety. They expend energy fruitlessly which their body would later use to maintain core temps. Anyone can survive with exposure protection which almost always provides buoyancy, and a flotation device.

In fact since good swimmers usually have low body fat, they are statistically less likely to survive exposure in the ocean, because they do not have the body fat to protect their core temps, and they do not have inherent buoyancy. There is a reason why commercial fisherman, and sailors regularly do not know how to swim, because it has no survival value in the ocean (and in fact has a negative survival value). Survival floating is of enormous value, swimming is of negative value since it encourages people to expand energy fruitlessly. Books and movies are books and movies. In real life, either the Coast Guard finds you, or they don't. Anbandoning your gear makes it less likely they will find you.

The situation of falling off a dive boat and swimming keeping someone safe is one of those things that seems reasonable until you actually see what happens when someone hits the water off a fast moving boat. They are out of it, basically knocked senseless by the impact and or the shock of the water temp. It is up to the captain and crew to react quickly and appropriately to help someone.

Swimming is panic reaction, and when I see it I treat it as such, since almost inevitably it turns into near panic in the ocean.

 

[Tigerman]

So what youre saying is that being capable of swimming back to the boat is a waste of time and energy?
Geeze no wonder the world is going down the drain..

 

[Peter Guy]

Just count me confused (perhaps a normal state for me?) about this controversy.

I think we all agree (I hope we all agree) that being a competent swimmer is a plus for a diver. We do agree, don't we?

I think we all agree (I hope we all agree) that being "comfortable in the water" is a necessity for a diver. We do agree, don't we?

I think we all agree (again I hope we all agree) that being able to "survival float" is a necessity for a diver. We do agree, don't we?

I haven't read anyone say a diver should NOT be a competent swimmer, just that one can be a diver without being a competent swimmer (a position to which I agree).

And if a person has a problem swimming back to the boat, isn't the solution that the boat come to the diver? OK, I'll admit I don't like to swim very far with all my gear on nor do I have a particularly significant desire to ditch my gear so that I can make it back to the boat. In fact, I have had to be "rescued" at least once because my buddy and I had been blown so far away due to a much heavier than predicted current, but that is why dive boats have chase boats, isn't it? (For what it's worth, I think I could have swum back to the boat but only because the current was taking me that way but IF I had missed the line, there is no way I could have swum to the boat.)

If I ever fall off a moving boat, being a swimmer will be pretty irrelevant, but being a floater is a necessity. OTOH, if I fall off an immobile boat, I'm just by the boat so being a swimmer is also pretty irrelevant, but, again, being a floater may be a necessity.

I get the idea of being a swimmer is nice, but critical for a diver's safety? Nope, sorry, just don't get it.

 

[Mike]

When my wife and I first got certified she was a poor swimmer. Before we signed up for the classes we spent a couple of weeks going to the local pool at night and she learned to swim. We then went on to the scuba classes minus that huge anxiety on her shoulders. I guess we were stupid to think it might be a good idea if you're going to undertake an activity where you'll end up in water deeper then you can stand up in most of the time to be able to swim.

And now I guess it's better to be able to float rather then swim.

I don't care if the boat is supposed to come to you, or that you're never supposed to ever be left behind, or that you should never try to swim but should float to shore, it's silly to me to be in a deep water environment and weighted to sink no less! and not be able to swim. We aren't talking about somebody sitting on the beach who might venture into the water up to their knees, we are talking about actively pursuit activity with heavy gear in deep water and varying conditions. Dive boats sink, they capsize, people get hit by other people's tanks in head on dive ladders, people slip on boats, fall over board, people get knocked over by huge surf doing shore entries and exits, people get caught in kelp...

I can't believe scuba divers are arguing against being able to swim. No wonder there are so many lawyers in America.

 

[k ellis]

Now I am officially confused. Should one be a confident swimmer - Yes. Should they be able to compete for the gold in the olympics? No Its just real simple guys and gals. Water confidence is 100 percent of the aim of the swim test. If one should have the rare occasion that they need to swim then its nice to know they can. I dont care if its a doggle paddle or the olympics stroke. Now should one be denied a card because he cant swim worth a hoot? No way! should he take swim lessons and learn! Absolutely.

It all boils down to one thing especially in america. If you tell someone they cant do something the right way then they will do it the wrong way. If you start telling people they cant dive if they dont meet criteria then we will simply start hearing about how people are dieing because no one is teaching them how to use the gear and the basics of scuba. Dont believe me on this just imagine how many people sign those waivers on the boat saying they have no medical conditions because they know their own conditions and bodies and the dive op would simply deny passage on the boat. How many times have you dove with a diabetic or a person with high blood pressure and did not know it?

Point is instead of turning people away who would otherwise make EXCELLENT divers because they cant swim why not work with the person even if at an extra charge and help them swim? My instructor did and though he has mixed reviews as a person. There is not one diver in my area I know of who does not agree he is one of the best instructors!

 

[cnar]

I'm new to diving but not to swimming and I can safely say this whole issue is only an issue because what swimming is has not been defined. For some swimming is being able to perform effectively one of the 4 well known styles. To others swimming is any method of self propulsion through the water while staying afloat and breathing unassisted. I for one swim at sea. I love doing it and no its not easy. I do know however that the best swimming stroke for me when making long surface swims is the dog paddle. So while I can easily do 500 yards with breaststroke, dog paddling is the most efficient for me in terms of energy and air requirements when I'm not using my snorkel.

In my youth I had a friend who learned to swim an "un-orthodox" freestyle. We use to swim out a few hundred yards and have fun in the water. To this day he still cannot technically swim, but he is better than most when you're out in the deep without any gear (mask, snorkel,fins).

So to me it makes sense persons can be certified and not know how to swim because when asked many are going to say I don't know freestyle etc so my answer is no.

 

[mike_dippert]

I have a question about this discussion.

I can swim (but its not pretty) and float in a lake no problem. I worry about swimming in the ocean though because I am not a strong swimmer. The couple times I have scuba'd, I was comfortable on the surface with all my gear on. And snorkeling isn't a problem either. I think I would be ok without any gear for a while. My reason for worrying is that when I'm swimming from a beach, I lose all my strength and energy battling the surf and waves.

I got in a situation in high school where I was trapped in water over my head. The incoming waves and outgoing surf wouldn't let me go anywhere. I swam sideways but didn't get any closer to shore. I finally found a sand bar I could stand on. I was a varsity tennis player at the time and regularly played intense 3 hour matches. I was in very good shape. But the waves (and my lack of proper technique) just kick my ass.

I currently live in Indiana and my LDS does OW in local quarries. The conditions are basically like a lake/pool, and I'm not worried about swimming there. What can I do to prepare for ocean swimming though. I also suck at treading water, if I have to stay still for any more than a minute I just float on my back.