Can non-member call DAN's hotline or medical phone?

[Brett Hatch]

I think this applies to DAN as a whole, not just their wholly owned subsidiary. The last reported year is 2018, wherein DAN did not have enough revenue to cover expenses. Since DAN owns the subsidiary, I assume that this includes any profit or loss of the subsidiary.

source: Check-A-Charity
DAN License/Registration #: CH9427

     Dan Foundation Inc., Durham, NC     Print
Registration Number :CH9427     Expiration Date : 3/27/2021
Revenue Source : IRS 990 w/ Sch.A (12/31/2018)
Total Revenue : $7,974,161.00    Program Services Expenses : $8,000,425.00   97%
Total Expenses : $8,265,974.00    Administrative Expenses : $251,262.00   3%
Surplus/Deficit : -$291,813.00    Fundraising Expenses : $14,287.00   0%
Statement Of Purpose SERVING SCUBA DIVERS FOR MORE THAN 30 YEARS, DAN PROVIDES EMERGENCY ASSISTANCE, MEDICAL INFORMATION RESOURCES, EDUCATIONAL OPPORTUNITIES AND MORE.

Neat! To answer the question about where Dan Services Inc's revenue goes, I did not find a satisfactory answer. However, I did find this article on the topic of non-profit companies owning for-profit companies in general. My takeaway is that if you have a non-profit owning a for-profit company, there is a lot of constraints about where the profits can go. In particular, revenues diverted from the for-profit to the non-profit must contribute to the non-profit's mission.

So if Dan Services, Inc does make money on the insurance policies, it would be illegal to use those funds for much else than funneling back into DAN's other activities. So, is it used to enrich some corporate bozos? Maybe -- I don't have enough information to refute that claim. But it would be illegal, and given that DAN ran about $300k in the hole in 2018, it would also be highly surprising. And, as @BRT posted above: "The income generated by DAN Services, Inc. helps to fund DAN's many member programs and services."

All in all, I think this reinforces my original claim that DAN insurance is fundamentally non-evil, as opposed to most types of insurance. But there is still room for this view to be incorrect if it turns out that Dan Services, Inc is doing shady stuff -- and at this time I have no reason to believe that.

 

[Jcp2]

What if it is true that once any organization reaches some threshold size that the likelihood of bozo-ness increases, not because it is a mistake, but because in order to survive and prosper, the organization needs its own bozos? A pure bozo-less company might be a very small, or unprofitable, or small and unprofitable one.

 

[Altamira]

Although I have excellent health insurance, I have always considered having DAN's membership and dive insurance a no brainer. $75/year for the DAN insurance I can get as a TX resident is worth it to me, even if I never have to use it. I spend more than that on products and services that are just conveniences. If I did not have DAN dive insurance in order to save $75/year, I would be kicking myself in the ass in the event I got hurt diving, especially when out of the country.

 

[BRT]

Neat! To answer the question about where Dan Services Inc's revenue goes, I did not find a satisfactory answer. However, I did find this article on the topic of non-profit companies owning for-profit companies in general. My takeaway is that if you have a non-profit owning a for-profit company, there is a lot of constraints about where the profits can go. In particular, revenues diverted from the for-profit to the non-profit must contribute to the non-profit's mission.

So if Dan Services, Inc does make money on the insurance policies, it would be illegal to use those funds for much else than funneling back into DAN's other activities. So, is it used to enrich some corporate bozos? Maybe -- I don't have enough information to refute that claim. But it would be illegal, and given that DAN ran about $300k in the hole in 2018, it would also be highly surprising. And, as @BRT posted above: "The income generated by DAN Services, Inc. helps to fund DAN's many member programs and services."

All in all, I think this reinforces my original claim that DAN insurance is fundamentally non-evil, as opposed to most types of insurance. But there is still room for this view to be incorrect if it turns out that Dan Services, Inc is doing shady stuff -- and at this time I have no reason to believe that.

I like DAN. I am a member and have been for years. Non profits can be non profits by funneling large paychecks to people that are important to the company.

 

[Bubblesong]

Imagine if all the cases of people getting hurt who have no insurance, and then afterwards starting gofundme pages, were INSTEAD pooled into one giant, retroactive gofundme called “DAN”. Everyone pays once per year, the injured people get taken care of, and no one is ever asked to contribute the unplanned disaster how-do-we-save-this-injured-diver-gofundme.

 

[kelemvor]

Imagine if all the cases of people getting hurt who have no insurance, and then afterwards starting gofundme pages, were INSTEAD pooled into one giant, retroactive gofundme called “DAN”. Everyone pays once per year, the injured people get taken care of, and no one is ever asked to contribute the unplanned disaster how-do-we-save-this-injured-diver-gofundme.

Some people just can't be bothered to buy insurance. It's unfortunate. I lump them in with anti-vaxxers and flat-earthers. In a world where folks have freedom to decide themselves there will always be a small number who make what most of us consider to be the "wrong" decision on one issue or another. Unfortunate, but I see no way to fix it without removing the freedoms.

In short, I think the current situation is the best the world can do right now. I guess there is a small third group that might not know about the insurances being available. Efforts to educate and evangelize are beneficial for that group.

I guess there's one more significant group here. Folks that are extremely poor but manage to dive anyway. For example someone near a good shore diving location. Possibly diving to harvest food for themselves or their family. They could acquire equipment cheap or maybe even free. Fills might be very cheap or even free (fire department maybe?). Possibly they're using a DIY surface supplied system. For those folks, paying for insurance would likely be out of the question.

For normal folks.. go get DAN! You don't want to be lumped in with flat-earthers, do you?

 

[tursiops]

You don't want to be lumped in with flat-earthers, do you?

All things considered, I'd rather be a flat-earther than an anti-vaxxer. At least flat-earthers only end up killing themselves....
'Mad' Mike Hughes dies in rocket crash | Live Science

 

[Angelo Farina]

Some people just can't be bothered to buy insurance. It's unfortunate. I lump them in with anti-vaxxers and flat-earthers. In a world where folks have freedom to decide themselves there will always be a small number who make what most of us consider to be the "wrong" decision on one issue or another.

Well, there are also several hundredths millions of people (most Europeans) which find extremely annoying the idea of having to buy an insurance for medical protection (independently from the cause of the injury), as we consider that health care is a constitutional right of any citizen (or visitor), and that our public health system should take care of our health for free, and without any need to "buy insurance".
I know that in the US such a vision is considered "socialist", and I do not want to start a political debate. I just see that even far right exponents here are firmly supporting the idea of a good public health system, taking care of everyone for free, without needing an "insurance".
Said that, I pay my annual fee to DAN for supporting what I consider a noble and useful association, not for getting medical coverage in case of a diving accident, which I am sure to receive for free by my public health system.

 

[kelemvor]

All things considered, I'd rather be a flat-earther than an anti-vaxxer. At least flat-earthers only end up killing themselves....
'Mad' Mike Hughes dies in rocket crash | Live Science

Darwin award. He built a rocket to get to 5,000 feet? He must not have believed in airplanes, either.

 

[Brett Hatch]

@Angelo Farina, do you have any sense of how commonplace diving insurance is in your area vs say, the US? I agree that with our much crappier system, there is a lot more motivation for DAN (or similar) insurance.