Calgarian suing diver training organization

[t-mac]

While I am sure PADI is probably responsible for the decline of western society and maybe even for traffic problems on the GW Bridge, I have a hard time hanging this on them. They are a training agency. Even if they specifically warned about the dangers of CO in training, would that have prevented this? I seriously doubt it. They warn against many other things very specifically, things that don't require carrying around a $300 detector, and people still do those things and sometimes get themselves hurt or killed doing them. The 5-star rating argument also doesn't move me. I can't see how anyone would get the impression that they are vouching for the quality of air fills any more than they are warranting the gear in the shop. Should they be liable when someone trips on the torn carpeting? (Five star indeed!). People often rail against PADI for turning out poor quality divers who depend on others to keep them from hurting themselves and everyone else. Yet, we expect them to certify gas in shops in Mexico? I will watch out for myself and take full responsibility for that, thank you.


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[swamp diver]

Worse is a jury could. A jury that doesn't know that a five star rating is no indication of quality since there are no other star ratings like a three or four star. All the rating is based on in essence is revenue. Shops agree to only cert through PADI, and only offer PADI classes and sell PADI materials. Quality is only implied by using a misleading rating. There is no guarantee the shop is a quality operation.
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The PADI 5 star rating did previously imply that a PADI resort or dive center was testing their compressed air quality on a regular (quarterly) basis. Many divers knew this fact and would head to a PADI 5 star fill station because usually there was a recent air certificate on the wall. Quarterly testing was better than the no air testing found at other facilities. In fact in order to be certified as a 5 star dive center the PADI affiliate owner would have to send his/her first year of testing results to PADI headquarters. After that the 5 star centers were instructed to keep the quarterly results "on file" which clients could ask to see.

Trace Analytics also had a special package of quarterly tests for PADI facilities in order to facilitate this quarterly testing so to say that that the 5 star rating previously had no relationship to the PADI air quality program is false. You can see here that Trace still has not updated its own web site and it still states that PADI requires quarterly testing which is not the case.
http://www.airchecklab.com/Services/Breathing-Air/Sport-Diving


The problem arose in about 2009 when PADI and one of its 5 star affiliates were successfully sued for a similar bad air CO double fatality in Roatan. Following this settlement PADI quietly got out of the air testing oversight business, but they did not notify the diving public of this very material change. What PADI should have done is announce very publicly that their 5 star facilities were no longer going to be required to partake in quarterly air testing in order that the diving public could take the necessary precautions such as carrying a personal CO monitor to protect themselves.

Many divers only stumbled on this change in oversight and many divers to date remain unaware that there is no longer any oversight of a PADI facility with regard to compressed air quality. The only training agency that still requires all of its affiliates to test quarterly is ANDI.

View attachment EPA Diver's Lament.pdf

 

[radtype]

It sounds like the husband is trying to have his wife's death make a difference. Good, bad, or indifferent it will cost everyone in the diving industry to some degree. I'm sure the agencies and dive shops are evaluating their potential liabilities and a few shops may even upgrade their equipment. If this is his real reason he has succeeded.

 

[AggieDiver]

The problem for me with PADI's involvement in addition to what SwampDiver pointed out is that giving the shop a rating with a commonly recognized "5 star" label, implies that they are reviewing the site or somehow have determined that they meet some level of quality. If they don't want to be in the business of checking air testing practices or reviewing quality, then they should call the shops what they are, PADI licensing affiliates, not "5 star" dive centers. If you are going to quietly withdraw your air testing requirements without notifying the folks you have trained and licensed of the change; and you continue using the same rating/naming system for shops after the change; then you should expect people to believe that you are still in the business of making sure your "5 star" shops are properly testing their air.

 

[t4e]

FWIW we're currently in Cabo San Lucas diving for the week with DIVE Cabo, formerly known as Sunshine Divers, the shop the victim used
we have our own testers for Nitrox and CO, but they have readily available for anyone a CO tester
other than that they are very safety conscious and the services are impecable, this is a 5 star establishment afaic

 

[chillyinCanada]

T4e, when did they last calibrate their sensor? :chuckle:

 

[Dr. Lecter]

All the rating is based on in essence is revenue. Shops agree to only cert through PADI, and only offer PADI classes and sell PADI materials. Quality is only implied by using a misleading rating. There is no guarantee the shop is a quality operation.

But calling shops "AWESOME FOR OUR BOTTOM LINE! dive facilities" just didn't poll well, so PADI picked something that made the shop sound better, rather than just more profitable for PADI. And they did it to cause divers to be more likely to choose that shop...not a decision divers make based on how tight the shop is with PADI, but on how good and safe they think the shop is.

Summary judgment requires, in lay terms, that there be no important facts that a reasonable jury could decide against the moving party -- no genuine dispute of material fact. Whether a reasonable jury would hook PADI up to air quality liability at its "5 Star" facilities and whether it could do so are two very different questions.

 

[t4e]

T4e, when did they last calibrate their sensor? :chuckle:

no idea, but i know when mine was and got the same reading

 

[flots am]

Summary judgment requires, in lay terms, that there be no important facts that a reasonable jury could decide against the moving party -- no genuine dispute of material fact. Whether a reasonable jury would hook PADI up to air quality liability at its "5 Star" facilities and whether it could do so are two very different questions.

I'm thinking it wouldn't take much at all for a jury to hang PADI out to dry. In fact, I'd be willing to bet that if you polled any random 100 PADI certified divers (not pros) and asked them if a "5 star dive center" had to meet basic minimum safety standards, that somewhere between 99 and 100 of them would say yes.

The fact of whether PADI actually requires air testing is irrlevant, the only actual important fact is whether people believe that they can trust a PADI 5 star facility to not poison them.

Just like with Guide Michelin: It's possible you might get a bad meal, but you trust you won't get poisoned.

 

[Tigerman]

Would you complain to the guide or to the restaurant if the meal was bad?