C-Card roulette

[markmud]

I did read it. The message is that anyone can sue anyone for anything at any time. It doesn't mean or say they will be successful.

I have been subpoenaed and testified in court, including cross examination, as a witness in a criminal trial as well as in a civil trial. I have been required to fulfill subpoenas for document production. I regularly interact with lawyers for both contracts and lawsuits as part of my work. Not sure why this is relevant.

Somehow you think that a disagreement with a statement you made means that I "clearly" have no idea what I am talking about and should just defer to your "clearly" superior knowledge and experience.

Appeal to Authority

I know what the rescue cert is. And I know that it is not even close to being comparable to a CG rescue diver or any of the others you listed. A competent court will recognize that, and so there is no comparability as to duty of care. A plaintiff's attorney can make all the comparisons s/he wants; as I said, if you have a competent attorney, jury, and judge the differences will be made obvious. Just because the plaintiff's attorney alleges something does not make it so.

So for you to say "I will not do a one weekend cert course that brands me (in a court of law) in the same league as an AF PJ or CG rescue swimmer? No thanks." is to put it mildly, questionable. I repeat, a competent court will acknowledge that difference.

Hi Gcarter,

I stand corrected as some of my assumptions were false.

However, my gut tells me that you were not the plaintiff or defendant in the case (as you were a witness). Was your *ss on the line? Was your net worth and future earnings in jeopardy? Was your professional (not avocational) accreditation on the line?

Did you write the checks to pay for your legal team, filing fees, and expert witnesses?

Relying on a judge or jury to save you from financial doom is hopelessly naïve.

The root cause of our polite disagreement maybe that we are talking about two distinctly different theories. You may be thinking of probability, and I am using the theory of possibility.

It is highly improbable that you will get sued because you are a professional DM or expert Rescue Master Scuba Diver. I know for a fact that it is possible because in other endeavors, possibility has knocked on my door.

A realist thinks about what is possible. An optimist places his life in the altruism of a judge and the flawed legal system (and on this subject, the judge/jury probably knows nothing of the ocean nor SCUBA diving).

Probability v. Possibility. I think that is our problem.

Please read: Appeal to Authority

Your are guilty of the above.

I am giving you my opinion based on my life's experience and training. If you don't like my opinion, fine.

OP: I don't show pro certs because this glorified vacation diver does not want the liability. I have flat out turned down all offers to go pro.

markm

 

[gcarter]

Hi Gcarter,

I stand corrected as some of my assumptions were false.

However, my gut tells me that you were not the plaintiff or defendant in the case (as you were a witness). Was your *ss on the line? Was your net worth and future earnings in jeopardy? Was your professional (not avocational) accreditation on the line?

Did you write the checks to pay for your legal team, filing fees, and expert witnesses?

Relying on a judge or jury to save you from financial doom is hopelessly naïve.

The root cause of our polite disagreement maybe that we are talking about two distinctly different theories. You may be thinking of probability, and I am using the theory of possibility.

It is highly improbable that you will get sued because you are a professional DM or expert Rescue Master Scuba Diver. I know for a fact that it is possible because in other endeavors, possibility has knocked on my door.

A realist thinks about what is possible. An optimist places his life in the altruism of a judge and the flawed legal system (and on this subject, the judge/jury probably knows nothing of the ocean nor SCUBA diving).

Probability v. Possibility. I think that is our problem.

Please read: Appeal to Authority

Your are guilty of the above.

I am giving you my opinion based on my life's experience and training. If you don't like my opinion, fine.

OP: I don't show pro certs because this glorified vacation diver does not want the liability. I have flat out turned down all offers to go pro.

markm

A realist will recognize that what certs you have or do not have, show or do not show, is no predictor of what someone may sue you for.

Not having a rescue or pro cert is no protection against a bad defense lawyer / jury / judge.

 

[Chilly_Diver]

For most it is a part time job that covers expenses for their chosen avocation.

If you are getting paid to render services related to diving, wouldn’t that make you a professional by definition?

 

[TMHeimer]

If you are getting paid to render services related to diving, wouldn’t that make you a professional by definition?

Agree. But many divemasters basically work for free (a pet peeve of mine). And some are "inactive" like me (ie. "retired"). I figure all are considered professionals despite not making any money. My thought is it makes no difference if there is a lawsuit. I could be wrong.

 

[hroark2112]

This is why I prefer to dive solo and nowhere near anyone else. Everyone is so afraid of being sued that no one is going to help anyway.

Just let me die in peace.